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John Henshaw, Vice-Chairman
Hannah Anderson, Secretary
978.582.4139
FAX 978.582.4148
Jay Simeone
George Martin
Marc Luescher
Lunenburg Finance Committee
02-28-19
Michelle Walton
Location: Town Hall
Present: Terri Burchfield, John Henshaw, Hannah Anderson, Michelle Walton, George Martin, Jay Simeone
Absent: Marc Luescher
Guest: Heather Lemieux, TM.
1. Open Meeting:
The Chair called the meeting to order at 7:00 pm. This meeting is being recorded and televised for
re-broadcast on the Lunenburg Public Access cable channel.
2.
Communications:
Public Comment:
None
New Communications:
Passed a copy f the Beacon to the committee for review
Received a report in the mail from the Mosquito Control board about a proposed budget amount
that has increased from FY19 but will not be discussed at this meeting as it has not been looked
over yet.
3. Department 2020 Budget Presentations
• Fire Department
Chief Sullivan Presented his budget.
*attached below*
Terri- On the slide Understanding of OT, when setting the budget and putting the figure in, what
you are saying is if I have 6 employees and I'm anticipating that there are going to be this many
vacation days, this many holidays, this many sick days, then I'm assuming all of that is going to be
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potentially. Terri, and probably greater? Chief, it's possible. My thought is that you could see that,
the other advantages they have of the Pier Diems, they don't get forced to work and they can be
offered to a Pier Diem because somebody has to stay and it works for them as well too.
Questions from the Committee
Hannah, on slide 12, you have safety education from K-3d grade, is there anything preventing you
from going to the higher grades? Chief, no, that's what we have applied for, we have done that in
years past, we didn't get the return that we got with the younger kids. The researchers found with
the younger kids you can impress it on them a little more, they're not 10 feet tall and bullet proof
when they are getting old.
Hannah, on slide 26, you said you had two paramedics that withdrew from the training? Chief,
when we opened the positions up, we had two paramedics apply and they both withdrew, they
couldn't take the pay scale. One was going to be taking a significant pay cut, one took a job with
another department that was paying significantly more. Hannah, and then you said that with the
two people that it's in the guidelines taht they have to become paramedics. Chief, we worked out
an agreement with them with the union when we hired them that required that they obtain their
paramedic training. Hannah, is that in a contract? Chief, it's an agreement that if they flunked out
or left within three-years they would have to pay back the cost of the training.
John, the total responses that you graph, they are in a pretty narrow range annually from 2014-
2018 over a five-year span, give or take 50-70 responses around 1800, but at the same time there
is a fairly significant growth for calls in more dense Rogers Way like Tri-Town landing and so for
the two to be consistent, that means the rest of the town must have declined puzzles me. Chief,
some of the response you see are new growth and a lot of that has to do with inspections, and if
you see the graphs, they do track the different types of calls and what you see is emergency calls
usually start off low and inspections are high. As the developments are fully built out you will see
the inspections drop off usually, some of the fire responses drop off because some of the bugs are
worked out of the fire alarms, dust and smoke detectors, things like that, but what we see is with
the multi-family developments the emergency medical calls continue to rise.
John, if in fact they keep generating calls at the rate they have been recently, do we have a new
higher range and what is the consequence for you guys? Chief, for us we still see the increased
EMS calls, when I look at the runs over the last 20 years what you generally see is an increase and
they will level off for a while and then they will increase again. Last year was a little slower than
years before, this month has started off very busy when traditionally it is our slowest month of the
John, you spent a lot of time talking about the new paramedic hires, in a subsequent chart, you
said 2-3 more paramedics to get the 24/7 coverage which is what as a town we really want to go
to. Is that 2-3 more in addition to the ones we are hiring in training? Chief, correct. The 5-year
plan called for a total staff of 9 eventually, and that would put a paramedic on 24/7 and in best
case scenario a second medical on during the day time.
Terri, just for clarification, is Rogers Way not an over 50 years community? Chief, it is not, it is a
40B. That's the new building going down at Tri-Town, that would be over 55. Tri-Town is the only
one not built out all the way.
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different salary schedule.
Terri, going back to the EMS calls, of the 900+ that we are listed, are you responding to what we
responded to or the number that may have been outsourced? Chief, that would include all the
calls, I think a handful of those might have been outsourced with both our ambulances may have
been tied up. I don't have those broken out but the number is low, at least for transport, we still
use other services for paramedic. Terri, but the 900 would also include paramedic calls? Chief, they
would include all the transports we would call on, motor vehicle accidents, any type of rescue
situation, drownings, entrapments, they include well-being checks in case a life line alarm went off,
lift assist, out of the 900 about 70% of those we handle in town. Terri, and we are able to handle
those in town? Chief, generally with the two ambulances. Terri, how does that tie into fees, are
you able to collect on your fees? Chief, I don't have the number in front of me right now, we do
fairly well with the agency we use, there are always some that come to the Board of Selectman
with uncollectable that go back quite a way. It's about 64% Medicare/Medicaid in town which is a
different fund rate, that's a set rate versus a private insurance. Which is one of the reasons why if
we go paramedic, we could increase our rates but it's not enough to make it an enterprise fund. It
would offset our costs in that.
George, I'm looking at the 5-year capital plan, I don't see any replacements for ambulances. Chief,
not until 2026. This year currently we have one new ambulance coming and that will become our
front-line truck and handle 85% of the calls. The existing back up truck would handle the other
15% of the calls. That's how we rotate them around.
The next large apparatus would be 2028 that would be the 2008 pumper would be 20 years old at
that point.
Hannah, is the ladder truck on the 5-year plan? Chief, it's on order, its already passed. Hannah, I
just didn't know if it changes with the years being backordered. Chief, no, once it's ordered, it's
ordered.
Michelle, on the paramedic training slide you made reference to a license? Chiet, yes right now we
are licensed to operate at the advanced EMT level, to go paramedic there is process we would
have to go through the state to increase our licensing level to provide paramedic care because they
would be providing different forms of medication and things like that. There is not a huge increase
on that, technically we are already running an advanced life support license at the advanced level
but the state treats that similar to cost lives to a paramedic license. The bigger increase there if I
were to have one, would probably be our medical direction fee. We have to work through a
medical group under a doctor license to do that. We currently pay about $5K for that, I would
participate when we finally do it, that would go up. Michelle, is there any financial benefit to having
that license? More eligible for a grant or anything like that? Chief, not in that respect, I mean we
would have to have it to operate at the paramedic level, when we operate at the level right now,
we are paying out approximately $60K each year to other services for their paramedic, we want to
keep that money, plus most of this was in my last year's presentation. We would see more of the
revenue stay here, there are a few more calls right now that would go without a paramedic just
because they are not available. Again, it won't completely pay for itself but it would offset our cost
for having the staff, not just for the ambulance but to also have the fire staff in the event of an
emergency.
Questions from the Public
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to stay. Chief, it's a three-year cycle that they would have to stay after their certification.
Carl Luck, 50 Sunset Lane, on the paramedic, for outside training EMS is in the budget, right?
Chief, right now it's not in the budget but I am paying it with the budget, we've had many
discussions, Mrs. Lemieux and I, it's not budgeted but we are making it work. Mr. Luck, it's in the
-Y20 budget though, right? Chief, yes. Mr, Luck, it really raises an important question though,
what is the real total cost of bringing an EMS up to a paramedic versus increasing our rates maybe,
because they are in great demand, but maybe we need to be more competitive. Chief, with our
current scale it would cost $5K more a person to hire a paramedic at the entry level versus a basic.
Mr. Luck, but that wasn't enough it sounded so its $20K to train them up so I think we need to
look at the rate scale and see if we can bring them up to level because the other problem, we will
have is, we will spend all this money training and then they will be at a salary level that towns
around us will come grab them so I think we need to take a hard look at not only trying to hire
paramedics instead of EMS's but to look at the total cost in what the salary ranges are because we
need to be competitive. I have this feeling this is a crazy way to go.
George, Chief to Mr. Luck's comments, are you restricted by the contract that runs out? Chief, we
have the pay scale in the contract, a paramedic is approximately 10% over a basic firefighter. In
terms of numbers from step to step, it's about a $5K difference, but the pay scales that are out
there are still significantly more than ours. Geroge, so those new rates will need to be reviewed
when 2020 comes around? Something to consider. Terri, one of the reasons I asked when the.
contracts were up because I assume it would be in the next one or this one to cover. Chief, I
believe it's the end of June 2020.
• Police Department
Chief Marino and Amanda Moore presented his budget
*attached below*
Questions from the Committee
Hannah, how well do you feel that having dispatch in Nashoba is compared to having it in town,
you are looking for more weekend coverage for the front desk, so I imagine that means dispatch
would also be open for you all during that weekend time, right? Chief, I was never in favor with it
when it started in opposition with it when it happened. Hannah, I wasn't hear when that all
happened so I was just wondering if this is something better to bring it back into to town or if it is
better out of town? Chief, I hear a lot of out sourcing this, out sourcing that, well out sourcing to
me is not the answer to anything in public safety. In public safety we need to have access and
control over a lot of things because of what we do. It was nice having access and control over that
but it's not happening anymore and I am opposed to it. The state wanted to fund the PABS down,
and it's not easy to fund 351 PSABS, I get it, it's expensive. But there is no trade off when it comes
to public safety issues.
Terri, I believe the move related to an unfunded mandate type thing, that you were going to have
to have two people on at one time, so basically you always needed to have two dispatchers on at a
time? Chief, correct double the amount, you are right. That's part of what drove it, the EMD system
requires to have two dispatchers on at the same time because if someone walked in and needed
CPR then you couldn't drop what you were doing to help them.
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he have? Chief, Jerry only has a couple years left in them. That too will need to be something to
think about and that's about $7K. Hank, our certified therapy dog, we do not own or pay for him.
John, about the software program, the above target is $3720, is that the annual fee? Amanda, yes.
John, will that fee be anticipated to go up? Amanda, we don't have any anticipations for it this year
but we only have a contract for one year. So, in theory it could go up? John, are there future
anticipated savings? Could it pay for itself? Amanda, it helps free up time for people to do other
things but there already lots of other things for people to be doing. John, that's kind of where 1 am
going, if it would help the police department cover all the other things you have to do in a town
that's increasing size for population, to have an indirect value of helping you do what you have to
do with the available resources you have? Chief, Yes that's the reason for it. To help save time for
my men to be out in their cars instead of running back and forth doing paperwork and making calls
when they could be on the road. John, the problem is, it's difficult to quantify the savings then, but
there are savings? Chief, only in time, it helps Amanda greatly but it also puts them on the road. I
want them doing police work not clerical work. I want them out in the cars. What we are trying to
do is get the guys in uniforms on the road and help Amanda to be able to get more done.
Questions from the Public
Carl Luck, 50 Sunset Lane, DTS that's for $3,700? In the police budget, it's $9k under target so I
don't know why we cannot fund the $3,700 item. Terri, we will not be able to find that tonight but
we will address it as the overall budget. Mr. Luck, the additional officer is a patrol man line item?
Chief, yes. Mr. Luck, holiday pay is on a different line item, is there something unique about
holiday pay? Amanda, the holiday pay is usually when an officer takes one day off like a vacation
day or uses it as an extra day pay while working. Usually they take another day off as a vacation
day, it's like another OT line where another person is used to fill that the shift and that is where it
is paid out of. Mr. Luck, the educational incentive, $5K, can you explain that? Amanda, if they have
a associates, bachelors, or masters, they receive as part of their pay in a lump sum payment that
they get. Assoicates is around $2K and the higher the degree the higher the pay.
• Board of Health
Geroge, Chairman of BOH, needs one more day added to help run the office as the current time is
4. Committee/Department updates
Committee
Public Access Cable-Marc
Capital Planning-John H.
Dept. of Public Works - John H
Department updates
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Fire Dept - George
Schools - Hannah
Monty Tech - Hannah
Green Comm Task Force-Jay
Sewer Commission -Jay
Charter Review Comm - Terri
next fall due to manufacturing.
Charter review committee was supposed to have their
public hearing last night but due to the weather it was
canceled so it will be held next Wednesday night at
7pm in this room.
5. Minutes
No minutes for review.
6. Town Manager/Financial Officer Reports
Town Manager, the Nashoba Valley assessment estimated at $186K was $189,076,40
Health insurance number came in and decreased 2.45% and this will positively impact the schools
budget.
7. Public Comment
Dave Passios, 56 Whiting Street, last year during the process of going the paramedic route with
EMS, this year also there were questions asked about the 900+ calls being tracked and both years
we have received the answer that we don't really track those. I think that's a travesty, the
information is so important as to us making informed decisions as to how much money we put into
paramedic programs. We potentially could have paramedics doing house to hospital transfers, we
don't know who many numbers are these calls, because we don't get the break downs every year
of that raw number. I really believe that data is very important, I'm not saying we don't go in the
direction or parame that direction.
direction of paramedics, I just think we should have more data to look at to help us understand
Terri, over the next few weeks this is a good time to really think about what we put into the report
for the warrant. A question came up for costs, for those budgets that rely heavily on external
resources of revenue, what would happen on if those resources disappeared, and I didn't know if
you wanted to speak to that at all? Michelle, sure, the library is a good example of it, where they
have basic operating costs covered by the Friends of the Library, and if that funding should ever go
away, they are not mandated to spend that money, and we would be on the hook for that and if
we don't have a clear picture to what funds are being spent outside of our budget we could have
some exposure unknown expenses. I think we need a clear understanding of what is in not on
their budget but being paid by outside sources that we might have to fund in the future.
8. Next Meetings
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Submitted by: Hannah Anderson
Attachments:
Fire Department Budget Presentation
Police Budget Narrative
RECEIVED & FILED
APR 09 2019
LUNENBURG TOWN
CLERK OFFICE