===PAGE 1=== TOWN OF LUNENBURG Office of the Planning Board Matthew Brenner, Chair Tel: (978) 582-4147, ext 5 Matthew Allison, Vice Chair Fax: (978) 582-4353 Amanda Reid, Clerk 960 Massachusetts Avenue Erik Torgersen, Member Lunenburg, MA 01462 Timothy Willsmer, Member Richard Harris – Interim Land Use Director Joeci Gilchrest – Interim Administrative Assistant Minutes January 22 nd, 2024 Meeting Posted: Yes Place: Town Hall, 17 Main Street, Lunenburg, MA Time: 6:00 p.m. Present: Matthew Brenner, Matthew Allison, Amanda Reid, Adam Burney, Timothy Willsmer Absent: Erik Torgersen Minutes, 1/22/2024 Audio file 12224 Planning Board Minutes audio.mp3 Transcript Zoom Recording in progress. Richard Harris ===PAGE 2=== We could put two afterwards. Matthew Allison Can we hear feedback? Anne Aubrey We should be getting. Richard Harris All right. Matthew Brenner Check double check the time 6:00. We're on the air. And zoom is up and recording is that. Correct bangarang. Good evening, everybody and good evening, our friends out on the Internet and in town watching their televisions. This is the Monday. January 22nd, 2024 meeting of the Lune nburg Planning Board. This meeting is being recorded via zoom and it is being held at town Hall. You may participate by using the Zoom link posted on the agenda. Either the link or the call in number. You may also come on down to town hall. If you have any questions, please do reach out. We love public engagement. You have three members sitting up here tonight as well as Miss Reed is joining us remotely via zoom. As our 4th Planning Board member. I believe that's everything I am required to say. Thank you for joining us and. We will begin, as always, with public comment. See none. Before we dive into business, I did want we'll address this more formally when the time comes. I did want to call out that 255 Sunny Hill Rd. has requested yet another continuance, but they I believe we are expecting to continue. to later just our next meeting out. Do we have the date on that out to February 26, you said yes, 6th, 26th. Richard Harris February 26th. Matthew Brenner So that will not be. That will be spaced out and we have set the expectation with them that we need to know by the 20th if th ey will be. Continuing and requesting continuance, so hopefully we. Don't have these day of last minute requests. Thank you for your patience with that and we do have an item on the agenda that hopefully will alleviate some of this burden on interested members of the Community. Who wish to come in. All right. That said, I will move this on to our agenda and the first thing we have is the decision for 360 Flat Hill Rd. That was a scenic that was a scenic roads decision. And is that just for us just for us? To sign or do we have to add anything? Johnny Logan, thanks. So we can just sign after the meetings over. Super. So it's on there. So we don't forget, but don't need to do any business here tonight for it. Excellent. The live agenda items that go that quick. Next up we have an A&R at Leominster Road and. Anne Aubrey Yep, just to sign. Matthew Brenner Killburn St. Greg Roy Thank you, Mr. Chair, members. Of the board. My name is Greg Roy with Tilson Roy and I'm representing the applicant this evening, which is Tim Rick Realty Trust. And we're here before you. Today, for a three lot and our plan on the corner, it's the the property on the corner of Leominster Road and Kilburn St. it's a rather large parcel of land. I'm keenly aware that I've positioned the board too far away so that I can't read it. But there are two lots that are that we're proposing to create on Leominster Rd. frontage off of Leominster Road. And then if you go around the corner onto Kilbourne St. Kilbourne St. there's a 1/3 lot that we're proposing on that on that street. We spent actually several years with this applicant soil testing the property. The property is quite large but also has quite a lot of wetlands on it and the soils are not. Super. I guess I'll say for the purposes of citing septic systems on the property. So we found three suitable areas for for septic systems on the property and that is why we we created the lots in the in the configuration that we did. All the lots have sufficient frontage and area. They also comply wi th your minimum required weapon percentage and watch shape requirements. I should I should point out that the property is loc ated within the residence B zoning district, so we have an 80,000 square foot. Of land area. Requirement all of them are in excess of that. They all have excess in excess of. 90% of the upland area. So the all of an excess of 72,000 square feet of upland area on the property which in effect meets your 10% weather requirement. So some of them have more area of weapons on the property. But we do meet the the, the the requirement. In virtue of the fact that we're providing that 90% of upland. The only one I wanted to talk about. Well, I want to hit on a few things. One is to just to tell you what we are the permitting for the rest of the the rest of the land use permits, we're before the Conservation Commission for all three lots. There are the houses separate, not substances, but houses and grading. Require work within the 100 foot buffer zone, so we do have notice of intents for lots two and three, and a request for determination of applicability for LOT 1. Before the Conservation Commission, we expect that to. We've been waiting for DEP. For quite some time to comment on those, we. Expect that to close short we we. Expect to go back to the Cons ervation Commission. The first meeting in February for that. And then we also have submitted Board of Health septic permits on all three of the lots as well. They have issued comments which we have addressed. I am not sure if they have addressed if they have formally issued permits yet, but. I believe that. We are close to receiving board health permits for those. The only other thing I wanted to mention was on LOT 1. You can see a access easement that traverses the property that access easement is existing today there's a driveway easement that that trav erses and and services. I think 2 houses actually. Off the property, so obviously we're preserving that easement access as we go through the new lot. We've configured the driveway house and septic system locations on that lot to accommodate that easement, so that that access would be preserved. And I think that is all I wil l. Have to have to take any questions or. Comments that you folks have. Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 3=== That existing easement, it does not have a current driveway on it or it does OK. Greg Roy Does. Yes, it's an existing driveway, yes. OK. It's been there for. A long time, you know, over 10 years, I would speculate. I don't have the. Matthew Brenner Yeah. OK. Greg Roy Exact the exact time. Richard Harris Are you envisioning using the driveway for the house? As well. Greg Roy We are going to keep that completely separate. So let me try and. Explain that. Richard Harris Have you considered pursuing relocation? Value so it doesn't divide parcel. Greg Roy Well, I I to be quite frank with you, I'm not sure because I wasn't the person that was interfacing directly on the client when we when we when we set that up. But we have accommodated a completely separate driveway for the proposed House. Which is further South actually on Leominster Rd. So S is planned right? And so we we. Have as we're going. To keep those drivers complete, completely separate distinct. Richard Harris OK. Greg Roy Is the plan. Matthew Brenner You know, this is not super directly relevant to this, but this is more for my own edification. So when we do an A&R carves u p property into smaller lots and there's an. Easement like that? How does that get processed with everything? Richard Harris It just continues with with the land. OK, this non consideration AnR endorsement. Matthew Brenner So that's why I tried to click. This is not about the endorsement, this is purely for my own to learn. Richard Harris Right. And it just it just it just it runs with the prop, presumably it runs in the property, presume they have an easement t hat's that long sometimes what you'll see is property owners or talk to folks who have the right to easement to relocate it. So it doesn't divide the property. Greg Roy In in this case, because of the topography on the lot, there really isn't another. Richard Harris OK, OK. Greg Roy Opportunity to really hit the driveway in any in any. More favorable location and and that's exactly right. It's it's. Richard Harris OK. Greg Roy Basically, it's an existing encumbrance on the land. Now and it will remain. Richard Harris The same as if Eversource having power line transmission line through property is there. Matthew Brenner I was kind of. Soon they just stayed. But I realized on the back end I don't know how that's. Interpret it all right. Greg Roy Yeah. The person that that has the benefit of the easement would have to relinquish it, and you'd have to dissolve that through a legal process. And I don't want to get too far afield outside of a subject matter of expertise. But if the person that has, I mean we we run into situations like that. Matthew Allison OK. Greg Roy Where we have a a very. For lack of a better. Word ancient access easement that is not being utilized and hasn't been for decades. Sometimes you can have a situation where you can get that extinguished through a legal process, but this is not one of this is an activ e driveway so. Richard Harris Sometimes the holder of it is being. Fishy of it? Is more than happy to have relocated. And sometimes they're just adamant th ey don't. Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 4=== Well, thank you. And just for the sake of clarity, again I. Was asking for my. Own benefit of learning. We are limited in how we interpret these. As always, before we go on, I have not. I just realized Miss Reed, could you just chime in to make sure we can hear. You this evening. Amanda Reid I'm here. Can you hear me? Matthew Brenner Thank you. Perfect. I'll turn to the board and ask what other questions we might. Timothy Willsmer I don't have any questions at this point. Richard Harris Now creating 3 new lots out less than 10 to the remaining big parcel. Greg Roy You know, I was asked that a conservation. As well, and I'm not sure I think at the at the moment it will be retained by the family, it's it's family owned land. There's like I said, there's a lot of wetlands on there. And we've, you know. We've we've saw tested. The areas that are greater than 100 feet. From the West. And they, you know, there's there's some shale and some otherwise just not terrific soils out there. So there's no media plans that I know of for for the land. Richard Harris OK. Matthew Allison So I have a question please. I'm not familiar with Tim, Rick, I'm not familiar with TIMIT Realty Trust, but you say it's a family. Is it the family of the the Joshua T Hillman, the abutting property? Greg Roy Yes, Sir. Yeah. It's Judge Judge Hillman is our client. As a former judge and. Matthew Allison So the adjacent property has a 20 foot wide access strip to that huge parcel up behind it. That's not shown shown on your locust map. So if this is commonly owned, I mean I understand the difference between the family name and and and a trust is different ownership, but if. Wouldn't the re be an option for us to suggest that they increase this 20.29 foot frontage leg which is? Pretty small for that. Greg Roy Which which one is which? Matthew Allison So to to the to the North East, I assume. So one of the. One of the two properties that serve by the common driveway. There's a there's a leg that shows on your locust map that doesn't show on the plane itself, so the. Speaker OK. Matthew Allison The 400. 4432.24 from Leominster Rd. There's there's two bounds shown, which I assume would be the frontage. Richard Harris At the bottom there of your plan. Matthew Allison Yes. Yeah, exactly. So there's two bounds shown there. Iron rods found and it looks to me that that might be the frontage of that. Large lot that it doesn't show anywhere aside from the Locust plan. Yeah, well, you had your finger on it. I think that's it. It's an existing non conformance apparently because there's a lot line there, but if they were all under common ownership, there was a lot there was the commo n lot merger. Richard Harris And and merge was on and can't separate it then. Greg Roy Yeah, but I I think so. I'm not sure on this, but I think we would argue that they're not under common ownership. I mean, I'm not. An attorney, but even if there were. Our clients had not instructed us to that parcel was not included in our scope of work. So if you know that, I guess they they'd be at risk relative to that if they if there was a. Claim made that. They were under common ownership. Yes, they would be. Giving us some . Rights on that, but I don't believe. I believe that they were. Matthew Allison Well, I guess the answer to the question was when when did Tim Mack Realty Trust become the owner of this 81 plus acres? Versus versus the Hilling family, I'm not sure. I guess would would that not be the? The answer to this question. Richard Harris That that is a question that is the answer as well. Lots more is when they to gunship of it. They took long motion above it t wo years ago. This issue they took ownership. 40 years ago, right it's not. Matthew Allison An issue exactly? I guess that's my. Question. Right. I just. I'm not, I don't have that. Richard Harris ===PAGE 5=== Answer. OK. I think Ted comes in more of a. Issue when you apply for your building permit and the building Commissioners determination of this bit of a lot. Matthew Allison Well, I just I. Just wanted to bring it up at this point. So that you have the opportunity so that that question is on. Record. Excuse me? And you have the opportunity to look at the option of. Greg Roy Understood. And I I think that I mean, I'll certainly bring that back to. My team and my client through my team, but I think that I could only show that that's been vetted, either that it's been determined legally that it's a it, that it it does not meet the common ownership. Best or that they're just not intending to? Carry that forward as a as a that separate lot with the 20 feet of frontage. Is a performing lot. Richard Harris Does that lot have a house phone? Greg Roy Better. No, no. I was just actually gonna do you have the assessors in front of you, Mr. Allison? I. Matthew Allison I don't. Greg Roy Don't either. I actually think it might. It might because. I think the driveway. Through lot 1. Is shared, I believe I don't have the assessors. Map in front. Richard Harris The issue. That raises is if it's going to. Exist and house on it. And then if it didn't merge. And they separated off. That house would probably lose in grandfathering. Greg Roy Rights. Yeah. You have an infectious validity clause. For argument, I'm just not prepared to answer. That tonight, folks. Matthew Allison Yeah. All right. Greg Roy I just don't know. Richard Harris Thanks for perks and endorsement now. Matthew Allison Right. I just. Richard Harris Have fun. Matthew Allison I I wanted to make that known. That's all right. Greg Roy So, so and and you know, if you endorse the plan? It's still owned by turmeric. Lot 1, still owned by Turmeric, so it's not that it it would negate that. It just. Richard Harris It might be something that you take back board endorsing take back to your client and is the client decides? Yeah, that's an issue. Then they ask the board. Tim Battles Yeah, most cases it becomes. Richard Harris Well, basically we're recording. Greg Roy Well, that's right. We might think, yeah, that would be the worst case scenario. So I think that. Richard Harris And avoid it. Greg Roy Great question. I I don't. I wish I knew the episodes prepared for that answer, but but I think the risk is low at this point because it's not a it's not a situation where it's where we're conveying the property tonight. So I think that. Tim Battles I'm sorry. Greg Roy There wouldn't. If if all of those conditions existed, then it would create an infectious and validity issue. Matthew Allison ===PAGE 6=== We, you know, we would. Greg Roy We'll vet that before the the. Lot 1 would be paid so. Matthew Allison Very good. Sorry to throw that wrench. Greg Roy No, no, no, I appreciate it because it it's it's a. I'll bring it back to my team and. The and the to the client for that. Richard Harris Very good. And and I'll tell you from my experience, I'm attorneys tell me that. And I've. Oh, we didn't think about that. Some some trees think, but some. Speaker Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Matthew Allison Don't well. Greg Roy People hearing me talking and I'm no expert in infectious and nudity, but just the sound of it makes you confused and and that that's that's why because it's something you do that infects and makes something else. Valid, so instead of. Those back door type zoning issues that. Matthew Brenner And that is actually what I was about to do is say Mr. Harris, for the benefit of the. And not that again, not that this impacts our decision with the A&R, but because this is a topic that's been brought up for the benefit of the board and for the benefit of the people in the audience and those. Of you in your homes. Could you give a dime store explanation of infectious invalidity? Because that's what we've been talkin g about here. Richard Harris Basically, you're creating taking action. With this legal, but in doing so, it's made this is this in condition illegal? Great. And then someone comes up is if someone's got a house when they got mortgage on it and they're called off property and then the mortgage holder says. Timothy Willsmer You just damn you destroyed. Greg Roy We we the first the very first. Thing we advise to folks when they come when they ask us to subdivide their properties. Do you have a mortgage? If the answer is no, we're great. If the answer is yes, who's it with and if it's Bank of America, we say refinance and then come back and see us because. Richard Harris And I'd say. Greg Roy Never going to get it again. Richard Harris Some biggest language and forces in the country of the banks. Greg Roy That's right. That's exactly right. So you know, there's a whole process. The bank has its subrogate. I think the bank has to. Subrogate or sub agai n I'm. Using legal words that I have no business. Using but the bank has to. Basically, give up the. You know, has to make a decision and release that portion of land before you do it. So anyway, we're getting far field. Matthew Brenner Well, thank you for. Thank you for the education. I think that's valuable for all of us. I will turn. To the board and say no w really focusing we. Raised potential concerns that could exist to the applicant so they may do with that what? Matthew Allison They wish there is. I'm. Matthew Brenner Sorry. Oh, OK. There is a house on it. Greg Roy There we go. OK. Matthew Allison By the GI's. Ma'am. Sorry. I'm sorry. Greg Roy That, that's that's a great. Mental note note made. Matthew Brenner All right. But for the purposes of endorsing the A&R, we're looking now, let's focus our conversation there. So now I would entertain any other questions or thoughts that lead us towards or away from or on the topic of endorsing. Timothy Willsmer ===PAGE 7=== Are just to make sure I understood the conversation is happening. Any of these things that we've discussed aren't necessarily going to impact the A&R like that's that's the property holders. Like if something's missing there, that's something that they're going to find out. Speaker OK. Timothy Willsmer And have to deal with. Richard Harris In fact, your ability to endorse or. Not endorse, right. OK, yeah. Matthew Brenner But as a board, we have a history of asking a few probing questions when something seems off in the hopes of trying to head o ff at the past future issues for the applicant, really. And sometimes that puts people off because they look at it and go, but you can't consider this and we have to say what we're not. But we thought you might want to know because we don't want you to put yourself in a bad. Richard Harris Situation rephrase my answer. It doesn't affect your responsibility to endorse or not endorse good work. Matthew Brenner All right. So hearing no other questions and I don't have any yet, I see everything Mr. Roy has discussed. I would look for a . Matthew Allison Motion. I do have one comment to me, please. I I very much appreciate that you mentioned that all three subjects are currently under review. And I'll bring this up later in the board comment, but that's something that we are, you know, regulations require response from the Board of Health. Is that true or not? Anne Aubrey Yeah. And I do have a letter from the. Board of Health that. Matthew Allison OK. But we didn't, we didn't ask for that letter before, but again board comment nothing to do with this one. Matthew Brenner I don't. Do do we require a response from the Board of Health or merely that they have submitted the request? Greg Roy I actually think they. Take the sign before we can even come. To this meeting. Matthew Brenner OK so here we. Matthew Allison Go, I thought. Greg Roy If we're here, it means that they've, they've they've given some indication that some either something is an issue or it is a n issue and they. They've done soil testing and done whatever. Richard Harris And we are honestly, after 20 days of submitted to the board. You had no choice, but yeah, actually even without. Port of hea lth, yeah. Greg Roy That's right. Richard Harris Action 20 day. Matthew Brenner All right, so. Greg Roy 21st day. Richard Harris First I found with the town clerk. Greg Roy That's the sign, yeah. Matthew Brenner Again, I turn to us and I'd be looking for a motion motion to endorse the and R for Leominster Road and Kilburn. Second, moved and seconded. Now I need to do a roll call vote because we have a member remote. And Miss Reed, I will generally be starting with you on these just so you can anticipate that Miss Reed? Mr. wilzer? Aye. Aye, aye, and an eye for myself. Very good. Thank you very much, Mr. Roy, we. Appreciate it. Thank you. Greg Roy You got it. Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 8=== I'm going to go back to our agenda. In theory. And Next up would be. Modification to erosion control plan for 274 prospect St . Tony Daseas How's it going? Tony Daseas. A&M Construction? Construction fairly simple. We're really just looking to change the location of the silt fence from the original plan. The original location really isn't in the greatest spot. We have some standing water on th e side of the road that's kind of preventing us from putting it. Where it was originally located, looking to move it farther. Up the property. Matthew Brenner All right and. I am. Just I'm looking through our notes. Timothy Willsmer The things I saw here we have, I think it was your recommendation that this is a de minimis change and then we had. Other response I think from the Conservation Commission, I can't remember. Richard Harris Yeah, concentration. supported the change as well. Yes. OK. Thanks. Consent segmentation should be closest to the end of lane construction as possible and way was originally approved. It was quite far away and down slope. And that means you would have run off. Going through vegetation maintaining. Before getting to the sew fence, and that's not what's supposed to work. Matthew Brenner All right, we have a we have a recommendation from the conservation administrator and from our interim land use director. Along with your opinion that this would qualify as a diminish. Matthew Allison But it's not been requested as it had been in exchange, so we don't have to find that it is the minimus and then. Vote on it. Richard Harris Is that correct? Well, if you find if you don't read this the amendment amendments, then you need go through formal amendment process. Public hearing all that. Matthew Allison Stuff. Should it have been advertised as it demanding this change, or does it matter? OK, so. OK, so there is no. So are we ready to make that? I' m happy with all the input we've gotten. I I I would move that we find this to be a demanding this change for which this prospect St. which street which number 274 prospect St. modification. Richard Harris 2745. Matthew Allison Oh, we have to find it's Dements first, and then you can. Richard Harris OK. You could just one motion with it. It's too. That's fine, yeah. Matthew Allison My motion to add that we approve this change does that work? Matthew Brenner Yeah, yeah, moved second. And seconded. All right, all in favor? Miss Reed Mr. Rosner. Mr. Allison. I and I for myself. Very good. Thank you. Tony Daseas Thank you very much. Matthew Brenner I love it when things are straightforward. Background We don't need that either. Matthew Brenner Next up would be the public hearing continued for 255 Sunny Hill Rd. Stormwater management plan. As I mentioned earlier, they have requeste d a continuance due to technicality. Tech. I mean, if I don't think. I don't know if we need to get into all of it. B ut we can certainly but basically. Richard Harris The the rain from permit number from. And there is push back in SDP on. Matthew Brenner And that's due to the history of the. Richard Harris History of the property was divided 01015 years ago. Matthew Allison All right. And the request was to continue till the 20? Richard Harris 6th they requested continuation I talked to. Matthew Allison With it. ===PAGE 9=== Richard Harris Justin declared and asked him when does he think he's? When you're ready. Because I don't see a reason to continue the next meeting if. You're not going to be. And so also we want information by the week before the meeting and in our discussion we agreed that February 26th should be a reasonable date with them getting information to us no later than February 20th, I would say the 19th, but 19th is a holida y, so. Matthew Allison Are you ready? For a motion. Matthew Brenner I say I would love to have a motion. Matthew Allison On this I move that we continue the 255 Sunny Hill Rd. stormwater permit public hearing to February 26th at six O 5. Matthew Brenner Moved and seconded. All in favor, Miss Reed. Hi, Mr. Rosner. Hi, Mr. Allison. Matthew Allison Aye, aye. Matthew Brenner And aye, for myself, for the interest interested members of the public, because this has been continued several times, as was stated, we are expecting that they will let us know by the 20th if the. Reasonably believe that they will be able. To move forward on the 26th. Richard Harris I can explain the rational gave for the 20th is if they give it to us on 20th and ask for medical simulation, they'll give us time to post it on website and possibly even someone notified voters that it they hadn't made the request that was so. Matthew Brenner Sorry 1/6. Richard Harris So if you don't show up here or online expecting to see a meeting, then it not happen. Matthew Brenner And as I said, we have a agenda item later to try to look at codifying this sort of process more thoroughly for the board so that we. Can avoid having people have to come out when they don't have to. All right, Next up would be the continued public hearing for 317 to 321 Sunny Hill Rd. Stormwater management plan. Greg Roy Thank you, Mr. Chair. Members of the board. My name is Greg Roy with. Dawson, Roy and I am representing the applicant this ev ening, CTB Holdings, Tim Battles. Is here representing CTB Holdings this evening and I. Wanted to give. You a little bit of a backg round on this. Project actually give you wait, sorry. Matthew Brenner So Mr. I'm going to interrupt for a minute. I just want to verify we have opened this public hearing in the past and this is a continuance. Is that correct? Greg Roy Or have we? Well, we continued it on the opening hearing. So you may want to open it. Matthew Allison I don't. Richard Harris If you didn't actually open on the first time, you simply deferred or continuing. Greg Roy We we did, we used. We asked you for a continuance and you may not have opened it so. Matthew Brenner Very good. Then I am going to pause us. Tim Battles OK. Matthew Brenner Please read I'm. Happy to read just because you are remote. Do I give the original date or do I give today's date or the date ? Richard Harris Give the original date and then note in their values continued to today's date. Matthew Brenner OK, well leaderboard playing board. Will hold a. Public hearing, originally on January 8th, 2023 at 6:05 PM, but now has been continued to today, January 22nd, 2024. Six O 5:00 PM at town Hall, 17 Main St. Lunenburg, MA, to hear and review stormwater permit application. Under Chapter 204 of the Code of the Town of Lunenburg for 317 to 320 Road, 21 Sunny Hill Rd. Applicant and owner Tim Battles, 33. Lomar Park Dr. Peppe r M A 01463 materials are available for viewing at the Planning Office, 960 Massachusetts Ave. Ludenberg. Mama. This meeting is bro adcast live through local access cable on Facebook live and on public access. On the public access Facebook page. And I don't believe we have to keep going ===PAGE 10=== with every detail. Of how it's being. It's fine. Yeah, broadcast. So now that we're. We've definitely opened the hearing and there can be no question. Thank you for your patience. Greg Roy Mr. Roy, thank you very much, Greg. Roy Dawson, Roy representing the applicant, CTB Holdings, Tim Battles is here with us this evening as well as you mentioned the property is located on Sunny. Hill Rd. at. Address 317 and 321. And I wanted to give you a little bit of a history lesson on this and then get into the merits of the project and try to be as brief as I can. The the applicant purchased the property. I think over two years ago retained our firm a little bit over two years ago to finish up the permitting relative to some some additional soil testing that was required on the property and to take it through the required septic system permits. And the like and and to administer construction services. Sometime in April of 2022 or sometime around April 2022, the applicant we had we had received Board of Health permits for the for the two pieces of property and the applicant applied for and received the building permit on 3/21 which is the. The one on the. Lower portion of the plan on the the upper uphill, if you will the the higher of the two lots. And and has since constructed the septic system house, driveway and the site improvements at the site. A few months ago, they applied the applicant applied for a certificate of occupancy and it was determined at that time that. A stormwater permit was required. So I wanted to get that in the record. We are here to clean that to, to clean that process up, I think at. The time the. The construction of 321 did not constitute an acre of. Servants, as shown on our septic plan, it was it was something less than 30,000 square feet of of disturbance. What ended up happening on the site was that some additional land was cleared down to the bottom. Of the hill. And it was also cleared onto 317, which was the other lot. That was not the subject of the building permit. So as you read through your stormwater regulations, land clearings in excess of not just land disturbance, but land clearing in excess of. An acre requires A stormwater permit, so it was one of those things that I think. Just in virtue. Of the timing of of how things went down well, active to permitting just fell through the cracks. So we are here this evening to make good on that on that issue. So the the applicant a month or two ago hired us to to prepare t he stormwater permit that's in front of you and we have included both of the lots in this in the stormwater permit because they they are owned both by the applicant at this point. And together represent about 115,000 square feet of disturbed area. So what we submitted to you was in addition to this plan, we also submitted to you a detailed stormwater report, documented compliance with your regulations, the Massachusetts stormwater and the Massachusetts stormwater management. Relations as well as the various various project narratives and applications that you require as part of that process, and I'll just give you a quick tutorial of the plan, the light green area is the portion of the of the of the work area that has been disturbed and cleared. And you can see that the location of the two houses up. Closer to Sunny Hill. Road, the one on the the. Lower side of the plant has been installed and the driveway as well as the septic system. So that that work has been complete, the property on the northerly side of the plan uphill that driveway house since septic system has not been constructed at this point, but the area within the light green has been has been cleared. The toe of the slope, if you will limit of work area for 321 on the southerly side of the plan is actually upgradient of where we're proposing our stormwater feature, so. I'm going to go over a point. Speaker Put in here. Greg Roy I tried to find my leisure pointer before I got here and I couldn't find it, so currently today that's the limit of the soil of the servants at the. At the site. The the the rest of the area was cleared, but it was not corrupt. So from a soil disturbance standpoint, it wasn't. It wasn't disturbed. It was. It was left with roots and and things intact we identified. A few things that needed to be done on the site, both on the existing site and on the in addition to the proposed site that would bring the bring the project into compliance with your stormwater regulations. The first would be to put a we're we're we're proposing to do a. A stormwater rain garden down at the top of the slope. In this case, it's it's a it's a rather significant slope, as I'm sure you're all aware of Sunny Hill Rd. And so one of the positive parts of that is you have the opportunity to collect all of the runoff. If you put a feature down at the at the top of the slope and that's. What we're proposing to do so we're we're putting a series of water quality swales. We're at the top of that slope and A and a rain garden to treat and attenuate peak. Peak runoff rates from the from the developed area on the on upgrading where the house driveway and septic system. That's for 3:21 on 3/17, which again has not been constructed yet. We've also designed a similar rain garden feature on the lower side of the lot with a with a Swale that captures all that run off as it runs down. The hill and. Collects it before it before it flows downhill. But on that one, we've also included a a stone recharge trench on the edge of the driveway. And again this is the one that hasn't been constructed which will act to collect storm water and recharge it at the, you know, at the point where it runs off the the driveway pavement. All of those things combined, all of those features combined lead us to compliance with the stormwater requirements for peak rate of runoff, TSS removal, recharge calculations and the like we did. Received a peer review comment letter from Gra ves Engineering. Yeah, you. You folks sent that out for peer review that came in today. So I'm going to summarize that really briefly. It was a nine point letter. Five of the comments were really not substantive. Four comments and I'll I'll summarize them for for your board and also for the members of the of the audience and maybe have interest. The first comment was that we need to add the applicants telephone number and address the owners app, the owner and applicants telephone numbers to the plans. That's certainly not an issue. The second substantive comment was to perform soil testing within the rain gardens and and BMP areas. We actually have performed soil testing down there. We just failed to to give those logs to put them on the plan and give them to to Mr. Walsh, Graves engineering. So we will do that. The plant and then third, the plant should be should include the the site zoning information, so that's that's. Not a problem at all. And then 4th, the in our hydraulic model for our the stone recharge trench that I described earlier for the 317 driveway, we modeled that a little bit with with the incorrect void volume and the stone which we will which will clean up. And that he had no issues with the way we handled the stormwater on the site and no ot her. No other substantive comments. So I wanted to give you that. History and summary and then stop and ask for any questions or comments that you folks may have, or any of course any comments from the public. ===PAGE 11=== Matthew Brenner All right. I will turn to members of the Board 1st for any questions we have. Again, the we got the if you've not yet had the opportunity to review it, we did get the response from Graves Engineering. Today, and I would personally say I think Mr. Roy, because it's very brief, very adequately to explain the concerns there. My only. Timothy Willsmer Any issue and this isn't related to the thing, it just I didn't receive any. When did we receive any documentation that we should have had here? Because I can't find anything here or in the January 8th files. Anne Aubrey I did. I did put the. PDFs in the drive and then for some reason I just checked and then so I put them in again. Timothy Willsmer OK. OK, wonderful. OK. Matthew Brenner Other than that, I didn't have any questions at this point. All right, Mr. Allison or Miss Reed. Miss Reed, just feel free to if we're all talking, just throw up the hand signal. Otherwise, you know, interrupt. And Mr. Allison as well, do you have any ques tions at this time? Matthew Allison I don't my my one question. My question have been covered by Mr. Wellsmore about plans that we had available to us and I think it would be prudent for us to assume that we're going to continue because we don't have the updated responses for planes to the graves review. Other than that I I mean I I appreciate you know the due diligence as soon as you were told that you set up this, this hearing of of thi s. Greg Roy Believe me, the the the applicant. Would have been here two years ago, we. The applicant had a. Sale on the property that fell through this fall. So we we would have been here two years ago. So we want the. Matthew Allison Board to know that I do have one question though. Are there any wetland features or resource areas at all within the light green area? No buffer zone or anything? Greg Roy There are not. Also, yeah, there well into the dark green area. Matthew Brenner All right, my, my, my existing questions have also been addressed. I see and I agree that I I presume would be continuing because we still need to get those. Greg Roy I presume that too. I didn't want to speak for you, but I I figured you. Matthew Brenner Right. Greg Roy Would want to do that. Matthew Brenner I think I think we you walked in. We're on the same page because, yeah. Greg Roy Yeah, right, I understood. But I did want to if there were any comments or questions I wanted to capture everything so that we could come in with a complete. Package say the beginning of next week so that. You guys are. Matthew Brenner Ready. Great. And that I was going to ask. So in terms of continuing this, would our next meeting work for you please? Richard Harris I have one question, firstly because I think you overstated I moved on 2 substantive comments from Graves. The zoning issue wasn't substantive is. Greg Roy Well, what I meant by substantive was it. Requires action on my part, the. Other ones were to say that there was. Richard Harris One of the issues with this is is there was an issue with the driveway gradient being too steep and that's before the ZB. A which the ZB doesn't grant the relief. Greg Roy That's true. Richard Harris The driver has to be redone. That's true. How would that impact? The storm drainage. Greg Roy ===PAGE 12=== I mean, maybe slightly. If it did, we may have may have to come back and and do an amended process for this for this hearing. But we've, like I said, we designed a feature that's down at the bottom of the slope that's capturing everything that's running down. So it really doesn't matter exactly how that driveway is orientated. If we have to reconstruct that. Richard Harris My suggestion would be, given the ZA is scheduling February 4th. It won't be practical to even be practical to continue here into February 26th at the CVA acts, so they will know. Speaker Yeah, yeah. Greg Roy Your next hearing is. Richard Harris One no. Greg Roy Well, I know, but I'll just ask when is your? Next, your next hearing or 12. Matthew Allison February 12. Richard Harris Yeah. So just go to the 26th and that way, you know, as Eva is down by then, hopefully. Can save you from having come back if . Don't get. Tim Battles Yeah, I understand. Matthew Brenner Yeah, I would. I would ask you just to come up and just for the sake of completely completely give your name. Tim Battles I have it here. And address my name is Tim battles. My address is actually 47 Hawthorne Village Rd. It was. Located at 33 Lomar Park, but has since moved. My only concern is I do have a buyer that wants to close by the end of next month, so I was hoping to kind of have some answers more definitive answers for them by the end of next month. Totally understand your position. Richard Harris Doesn't have an appeal period. Therefore, if board approves it to 26, you're done. If the board acted before the CBA. Tim Battles I I understand. Yeah, I'm just letting you know. Matthew Brenner So this is, I mean it sounds like this is really just a decision for the applicant. They could go for the, they could go for the approval letter next meeting if it gets approved. Tim Battles It's been a long process. Matthew Brenner And Z VA doesn't grant the driveway. Then you'd have to come back and deal with all of that. But if? It does work, the CIA do esn't. Richard Harris And is. Grant the the the relief. Thing we would have about a week to get revised plan to us that the board could then act on in 26th. Tim Battles True, but at. Speaker That if the. Tim Battles Sooner, I have an idea of what's going to happen, you know? Then I can at least deal. Richard Harris With my reality is doing now until the 14th of the earliest. Tim Battles I know that's dangerous. But if it if it is. A favorable ruling by the. ZBA, is it safe to assume that? Provided Greg answers all the questions on this. Richard Harris That I'm losing doubt that it if the peer review is satisfied with the drainage that the board would be and. Matthew Brenner I I do not anticipate always watching my wedding. I do not anticipate that would be an issue, but I'm speaking as one member of a multi member board and I'm not going to have us chime in about expected votes in the yeah. Timothy Willsmer Right. Tim Battles ===PAGE 13=== Totally, totally appreciate that. Matthew Brenner But no, I mean you are welcome to move forward and continue to our next meeting and assuming we approve. And assuming Z BA grants the exception. Would be good to go. It would be more of a logistical headache if. We grant it. Tim Battles And then let's go back to. Matthew Brenner And then CD it. Is not, but this is your cause. Richard Harris In fact, is if the board granted on the 12th ZA said no, you wouldn't have decision. But in in the. Tim Battles Favorite continues to I think that's prudent. Greg Roy 26 yeah. Thank you. We we would then avoid having to re advertise. Richard Harris That that was my concern about. Greg Roy No, no, I appreciate that. I I. Mean we, we. As the applicant says, we we certainly always want to move as fast as we can, but we don't want to shoot ourselves. Matthew Allison In the foot. So I have another option, but I'm pretty sure it's not. Actually an option, so I I just want to ask if it is. My understanding is that we can't make an approval contingent upon another group's approval. Is there a way that we could? Approve the stormwater permit. Conditional upon the CBA granting that relief. Richard Harris Not ready now. Matthew Allison OK. Matthew Brenner That's too bad, because that would. Greg Roy We we need them both, right we. Need them both so it. Doesn't they're they're sort of. Richard Harris Then tip tip out as advice for you get your zba relief before you get anybody else's relief. Greg Roy Well, we were hoping to, but I think that just took a little longer to get on the meeting and we. Matthew Brenner Hope so. That's the way it goes. So you would be you would request a continuance to the 26th. Is that OK? I just want to make sure. Great. Greg Roy Correct. We would. We'll we'll say that out loud. We'd we'd like to formally request a continuous to this meeting until the 2 6th. All right. Matthew Allison I I did. Greg Roy I did want to make sure is there a member of the public? Matthew Brenner I would say I I will say that what we haven't done is turn to the public and. I apologize. Greg Roy Because I'd love to hear it if. There is one anything? Matthew Brenner So I do want to make sure we're. Over about public comment. If any members of the public wish. To speak. All right, seeing none. All right. Now then I will be we can just move to continue, correct from here we else. Yes, OK, great. So I'd be looking for a motion to continue the public hearing for 317 to 320 row one Sunny Hill Rd. to a date certain of February 26th at six O. 5:00 PM. Matthew Allison So moved, seconded. Matthew Brenner Moved and seconded. All in favor, Miss Reed. Aye, Mr. Addison. Aye, and I for myself. Greg Roy Thanks everybody, appreciate. ===PAGE 14=== Richard Harris Thank you. Thank you. Matthew Brenner Yeah, that's your fault. I was saying I for myself, which is your tagline, but apparently just say the same thing. Whenever you always spend with and I for myself, when you were here. Matthew Allison Well, that's. Well, I could just say I, but I'm not sure about the propriety of the English. Matthew Brenner I don't know, so I just I I say these I say the exact. Way you did perfect word for word. There we go. Matthew Allison I take I take a lot of cues from other boards too. Matthew Brenner I'm going to go back to the agenda. Great. So that is. The end of our public hearings looks like we're. Going to be. Lacking some public in the room, but friends, if you're watching at home, you can always join the zoom meeting and attend this fantastic public service party on. Why raise the roof but not too high? Could damage the clock board policy changes timeline and I I wanted this put on the agenda, timeli ne and expectations for continuing public hearings. So we we've had the. Issues a strong term, but we've had a recent applicant who has come before us repeatedly and. Kind of last minute saying oh, no, not yet. Yeah, we have had a couple. You're right and. That's hard for members of the public. And I know I was hoping we're going to get the wording the the wording into the. Into our drive. So this time because you had sent me some at one point, but that didn't happen and I believe that's me. But I want to know what we felt about a policy change. To put out the expectation, the applicants before the board when risk test if they're going to before the meeting, request a continuance. That they would do so a week before the meeting, because that would. Or even if. You're not going to do anything. Show up. And be ready to answer questions from the public. Wit h the expectation that. People come. To here and interact. Yeah. And I don't think it's fun. Not fun. It's not fair for people to take many Monday nights out just to be told. Not yet again, I'm not. Claiming this was a malicious decision, I think it's often just a matter of convenience of going oh, we can't. Ex yet. Let's let them. Know, but it's I view it as my job, as a, as a chair, and our job as a board to safeguard that public engagement. You may or may not share that feeling. But I turn to the board and say how do we feel about that? And then we can get wording for the because we do have to have exact wording. For a policy change. But how do we feel about that? So we could run our next meeting, vote on warding. Timothy Willsmer I do agree that like our A. Lot of our responsibility here is is to the public and as a result. Like it should. Be a space where they know what they're getting and and when they come to. Interact with the town. It seems complicated to try and. Make something to force people to show up when they're they're not like. Sorry, the businesses that are looking to develop. I'm curious to see. How we would. Enforce the either like tell us a week before or. The OR else? But you know. Anything we can do to to move in that direction? I'm behind. Richard Harris I thought my. Timothy Willsmer Yeah, please. Richard Harris Typically applicant pays engineers and architects and attorneys some significant funds to show up at public meetings if they're not going to be ready for it, they will sometimes submit a last minute request for continuation with the expectation that nobody has to show up. What I've done before is required one. Any additional material is is due no later than a week before the meeting. So they don't show up at last night with new materials and two, if they don't request a continuation within a certain period of time, they had to show up at the meeting request at the meeting. But be prepared to go through the full public hearing, which means. And they're paying an engineer, architect and attorney. Yeah, they may have an entire team. Timothy Willsmer There at the hearing that the cost of that tends to discourage people from doing these last minute things, what happens if they don't show up, though? Then what do we do about it there? And like, what do we do about it going forward? Richard Harris Here's thought the app the burdens on the app can to demonstrate that they've met. The standards for approval, OK. There's information hasn't been provided yet. That's the reason for continuation. They don't show up at meeting. The poor could close the hearing, make decision based on the information available, which means a denial in most cases. OK, so we we do have that capability to say. Timothy Willsmer OK. You didn't show up. Richard Harris You know, we didn't provide the information required and therefore the board had to act on what information had and information had did not demonstrate compliance with the standards for approval, OK. And that's that's the approach and this I haven't had problem with people. Thank you. Sure, they sure. Maybe time frames? Speaker OK. ===PAGE 15=== Richard Harris And so I will tell you some boards are not as willing to deny as other boards are. That's that's usually the big challenges where we actually. Make the motion to deny and deny. Timothy Willsmer At a certain point, like the ones that we've been continuing for like 3 months now like. And it's circumstantial, I suppose. Richard Harris There's one tonight that then. They would have general argument. They're for conservation. They can act cause the. Is she a permanent numbe r? And DP is raised the. Issue that I found perplexing but yeah, but. Matthew Brenner And if we? Did review the information as presented and it was not sufficient for compliance and so we voted to not approve. Then they can still. They can begin the whole process of. Richard Harris Work or they can offer you fair. Matthew Allison OK. Richard Harris The most important expense to most developers is time. Consequently, if they have gone through a two-month process. And result in a denial and on where they restarted the appeal in court, which is very expensive or start the process over which means. Pass another two or three months. Very few developers want to say we're going to. We're going to add three months to our time frame. Speaker OK. Matthew Brenner Now if we do move forward with this. Miss Ava, I turn to you. Just because I think we would want to be extremely proactive in our communication with applicants about this change for the foreseeable future. Now, that isn't wording that has to be finalized here in the meeting. For whatever paperwork we give them to help them out to my understanding. But I would say that that is something we want to make sure we address thoroughly and probably make part of our standard. Initial communication, as well as reaching out to anyone with public hearings in the pipeline and get confirmation that they understand that, does that make sense to you, Richard or? Richard Harris I think what you want to do is have a very clear policy written and approved by board posting website. And attached to. Application instructions I do know, like for instance. Anne Aubrey When we set up. If people are just setting up like a triparty account, I have a memorandum of understanding that applicants sign and it basically is just an understanding of how the system works and I don't know if it's something that necessarily needs to be signed by an applicant, but I could. Put it into practice for before submitting a public hearing notice. It's kind of I do things like all at once of like the notice and then sending it to a betters. I can definitely have that memorandum kind of handy. Richard Harris Well, I would suggest is once the board adopts the policy. With the come and acknowledgement attached to application. And that African simply sign the acknowledgement that they're there. So there were and. That that's the best way of making sure they're they're we have some same. Yeah. I mean we're in. Yeah. I'll make sure that we satisfy the requirements of giving everything to the board a week ahead o f time and. Matthew Brenner Now I have heard from three of I've heard from four of us at this meeting. I have not yet heard from Miss Reed, who was at home, or Mr. Allison, who has had some physical looks upon his face. Matthew Allison My my biggest concern was enforceability and and it sounds like it's it's it's enforceable to the point that the members of the body at that time. Feel that they're comfortable saying that? Well, you didn't show up. You didn't follow the rules. We're going to close your public hearing. And I' m. So it it that's that's, that's basically the enforcement. There's no, there's no enforcement beyond that, it's again. Richard Harris You failed to document and demonstrate that you met our standards for approval. And therefore. We were, we had closed the hearing based upon what's available to us now, because you cannot. Website yourself at the public because you went there. Speaker OK. Richard Harris And they were given clear notice of it. I honestly don't think you have a problem if you're not giving stuff to you one time. Matthew Brenner I think we communicated clearly as a clear expectation. Miss Reed, do you have any any thoughts or questions you'd like to co ntribute? Amanda Reid ===PAGE 16=== I just. A couple of thoughts. I think it's a good idea as you have something like this in place. I feel terrible for members of the public who show up meeting after meeting and the applicants or their representatives and not at the meeting, but it's not really. To before admin because everything is kind of, you know last minute and things have to change. We can keep track of everything. I don't think it's something obv iously that's applicable to anything currently open, but I think going forward it might se t some precedent in the future to where there's better lines of communication between. And and active representatives and the board and I, I think it's a good step, you know, quite sure of it. But yeah, I I happy with everything that Mister Harris presente d. Matthew Brenner All right, so I hear conceptual blog approval of. From the board. So what I will do is I will take the wording, Mr. Harris said. Work on that if it needs any work and then get it out to us before the next meeting. And we'll have this board policy changes on the next meetings agenda, so we can review it and we don't need any extra notice for policy changes. So then if we, if we like what we have and or edit it during the meeting to be something we. Like then we could vote it in, and if we're not happy yet, w e can workshop it as needed. Does that sound good? Timothy Willsmer Yeah, I'm happy with that. Matthew Allison It does and, but now that we're talking about it, it gets me thinking about other things. You know, having having a project proposal concurrently before multiple boards is a benefit to the applicant, no doubt. But in past experiences, I felt that it's somewhat detrimental to the town it self, to the different various boards, and especially now that we are such a lack of staff. And and overview and oversight and and and whatnot, I'm wondering if we could, while we're talking about public hearing policies for the planning board if. If we've got a storm water review that also has to be approved by zoning Board of Appeals and also has to go through conservation and also needs something else from the Board of Health. I'm wondering if if if all these other regulatory's couldn't be. Addressed at least partially or mostly or completely before it comes to planning board. Because and and I'll tell you my caveat here is because I have watched multiple meetings where an applicant has gone before a nother board saying, Oh well, planning board didn't have a problem with it. Well, planning board was under time constraints for the most part. Typically to make a decision and. And I don't think that that's fair to the other boards, commissions, committee groups, whatnot or to us, quite honestly, to be sending the pressing by saying, OK, you can do it and then, Oh no, you can't or we didn't want it done that way. Richard Harris Where you have time constraints in the planning board. Sometimes you don't have a choice. But for instance, special permits. You're in the. Controlling the seat there because you continue the hearing as long as it's insufficient information and not just asking for this request here it's going to substantive. Usually it's beneficial to the town. And the boards to have concurrent reviews. If, if there's sufficient communication at the staff level. To make sure that, Oh yeah, the change of plans when the plann ing. Matthew Allison Board exactly. Richard Harris And make sure the Conservation Commission got that information. And I think with Brian has been, Commissioner it that that's been very helpful and I think he's very good at almost all. Working now. Remaster with that because everybody finds out which projects are pending, you know comments people making which which by the way is above and beyond his job description. Currently I would just want to mention that has been. Anne Aubrey Yeah, yeah. Matthew Brenner And I said to the town, but I'm going to say that asset to this board. In particular, I really want to. Richard Harris Call that out. Sorry, I will not do what I would not discourage concurrent reviews, but to the estimate that the Planning board has flexibility with being the last one in line. And hold yourself as last one line. And I've done that many times where I've had Conservation Commission review the project. We're planning review project and I make sure the planning board. Didn't close their hearing to Conservation Commiss ion had. Matthew Allison I guess I guess that's where I was going with that is, can we put that in our standard procedures that when we have? Richard Harris Two distinct to the same thing. You have flexibility in the state law. The problem we have is like defend the Soviet plan. Yo u don't have. Matthew Allison Well, it's it's addressed within the regulations or? Matthew Brenner How is this something that needs to be addressed by? Matthew Allison Stuff like that. Matthew Brenner Formal policy? Or is this something that can be addressed by? The way we run the. Timothy Willsmer ===PAGE 17=== Meetings you might question to that is. What do we do? If it's something that like we do have a time deadline, but we are still also waiting for conservation Commissioner, somebody else to do a review, like if it is formally in here, does that enable us to say we understand there's a time limit but other reviews have not been finished or not? Richard Harris Under state law, for instance. If there's been a primary plan. Yeah. And subdivision and they can defend. If you have 90 days with some middle incentive to act on it. My decision, yeah, that that doesn't go away just cause conservations, right, however. Oftentimes when you get into the nitty gritty of the subview regulations. The issue is the Conservation Commission is dealing with. Usually leads to a failure to meet the subdivision requirements. If conservation hasn't. Matthew Allison Was off yet. Richard Harris Because, for instance, your stormwater has to be located and you do work within the conservation zone. That has been permitted to improve the condition upon. Would be improved as submitted. Well, I'm an applicant, I'm saying well, we know conservation is g oing to change it. Yeah. I don't want that condition. OK, fine. Gives letter. Continuing the hearing and staying the deadline. Matthew Allison Didn't we just determine we can't condition upon you know, the? Group's approval. Richard Harris You're not doing that. What you're doing is you're saying. Ruling conservation to answer before we make decision. Therefore, the app can to ask for a continuation and give us an extension deadline. Just have to run some Arbor St. before they recruit. Matthew Allison OK. Thank you. The deadline that was. Timothy Willsmer Right. So as long as. The applicant extends the deadline. Richard Harris It's still with with agreement with the planning board. It's gotta be green with planning, which can just being one party. It 's supposed to be written, isn't it? Yes. Asking in writing, planning board has to approve and has to be. Filed the town clerk. And that way the public is given notice that there's been extension in the deadline. As long as that occurs, you're fine. And usually when you find that another worl d where there's a storm water pool, water, where there's Conservation Commission or Board of Health, usually they're not. They have an actor yet. It use comes back to issue that's going to be in the subject subdivision plan that the action does want approved as submitted. The plannin g group calls. It means they might come back the planning board to amend the plan. And as said earlier, time is most most expensive item they have. And if large sentence and how she would go back with not another 90 day process. The N Plus another application fee plus another public he aring fee. Matthew Allison Two weeks for the advertisement. Timothy Willsmer OK. Richard Harris I do think that is a. I can't say there's a formal promise as much as just. Matthew Allison How you function? Matthew Brenner OK so. Matthew Allison When we put that into the application, similar to what we were talking about. Richard Harris Thank you. Put something in. The plan was rules and regulations, which we don't have any. We need to dress them up. They should have general rules and rules and policies. We don't. I'm not sure we do. We do. And it should be something in there about that. Matthew Brenner So it sounds like we have a little bit of homework looking into that. As well as some kind of concrete next steps on the. Exp ectations for how public hearings will continuances will be requested ahead of time. Sure. All right, great. Matthew Allison I like the intention. I look like I. Like the idea, it's good. Great. Matthew Brenner Wonderful looking board discussions. We have nothing on the docket, no minutes approval at this time, committee reports. Master Plan steering committee. Timothy Willsmer We haven't had anything major since last meeting. Next meetings. 2 Thursdays out. Mostly we I think at the next meeting we are expecting. All of the stage two surveys to be done and then the next upcoming meeting that I don't think I wrote down, we'll be going over that we'll do another ===PAGE 18=== public meeting. Oh, sorry, no, the public. Meeting is actually February 1st so. That's coming up rather quickly. That will be. I believe it will be at Eagle House and it is two separate meetings, one from 4:00 to 6:00 and 1:00 from 6:30 to 8:00. Matthew Brenner Yes it is. Timothy Willsmer 30 for the. Same meeting. We just wanted to be more considerate of. This time. And that's about it for the moment. Matthew Brenner I'm just February 1st, doesn't sound right to me, but I think it is and I'm wrong. I'm. Just double looking quickly. It's 100% February 1st. Yep, there will be two public. Meetings that day at different times. The first I think it's I'd have to double chec k I. Think at 4:00. 30 but I have. Timothy Willsmer 4:00 to 6:00 and. 6:30 to 8:30. Thank you. Matthew Brenner Yes, Sir. That way, members of the community who have. Earlier bedtimes or later availability, either way, you can make it to the meeting. Matthew Allison And just to further emphasize, they are the same meeting just at different times. Matthew Brenner Open space Ad hoc committee. Matthew Allison So we met and we was last week, I think and the group well rose a while ago, the group just decided to. The support I guess. The transfer of two pieces of Lake Shirley property to the parks from the select Board General Municipal to the Parks Commission. One was Stump Cove. Anothe r one was Parmenter Rd. I watched the select board hearing on that meeting and they had the hearing. There was a lot of good, good questions and comments brought up. As far as. Ownership of land versus who can do what versus who can come up with plans and propose things, and it didn' t seem like a necessity, but it does seem like it may be something that could be on the warrant. I'm not sure. But again, it was 2 parcels of land, the three plus acre, Stump Cove, and a very small. Pie shaped piece of land on Parmenter Road, and that's about the extent of the open space currently. Lindbergh Municipal Building Design Committee has not met recently. I did catch a comment by the Chair of the Select board, who was also a member of the Buildi ng Design committee, possibly having something for the spring, but most likely not. Maybe for the fall. Matthew Brenner All right. Thank you. I do know that our our friends at. Over, under and his associates and. I I can never remember all three groups that were contracted with them once, we will say over under, but it's a it's a trifecta. I know that they're looking to hopefully meet, I don't know if it's with the whole committee or just with the chair, but they're looking to have some input there as well because that's information that seems. Worth sharing for their report. Richard Harris And when the group when the fund is in its design. Matthew Brenner Design. Yeah, and the. My apologies, I always forget one of you. That is, it's different every time. Tim Battles All right. Matthew Brenner Agricultural Commission. Matthew Allison To me again, so we had our meeting last Thursday. We are. We we had a small discussion about goals I I neglected to have that on the agenda, s o we didn't actually finalize any goals, but we will be doing that. Our next meeting. On Speaking of our next meeting, our next meeting will be the 15th February 15th and at that meeting 7:00. In the letter. We are going to be brainstorming with any brain that wants to show up. Any brain that wants to have input can submit it by writing to me or to farmersmarket@lunenburgmass.gov, or to any of the other four members, or two alternates. I would recommend not the alternates because they haven't been showing up very often, but. If anybody has any input they would like to add, comment or otherwise about the farmers market for the upcoming season, we would be more than happy to hear it. We are also actively looking for two or more individuals to help promote and coordinate the market. As manager. We last year did not have. Last year, at the beginning of the year, well at the end of the year, they made it known that they weren't going to continue. So we had market management team of two members of two people. I'm sorry, they were not members managing the farmers market. And last year it was managed by members of the Agricultural Commission. And did didn't come out as well as we had hoped. And we again are looking for. Two more people, potentially at least one person to stand up and and volunteer to help coordinate the vendors and with the market itself I I will continue to be there every Sunday for the operation of the market, but again we're looking for manager. 19 and February 15th at 7:00, Thursday at the Ritter Building to probably downstairs. We would like to have as many people that would like to show up to comment, discuss input, question, anything you'd like. To bring up. But the farmers market. You know what? Day, what time if? If you want to have. It Every time day. If you want to start it later in the season, last year I think we had 20 something. Sundays again, we are open and curious to see if anybody has any input. So that was a long winded. Committee report. But I had to. Stump for my group. Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 19=== Please do thank you. Capital Planning Committee, the Capital Planning Committee, has not met the town manager has sent her dr aft of the anticipated. Of the recommended capital plan projects that does align with the top, the top ten that are expected to be funded due align with the board's recommend with with the Capital planning committees rather recommendation, though the priority order is slightly different. For those who don't know, the Capital Planning Committee. Through various means ranks the capital plan requests, sends them to the town manager, the n the town manager does have the right to edit that list as she deems appropriate as well. Well, funding may become available a s budgets sell, right? And maybe more projects will get funded, but that's all happening. And again a bit later in the winter, early spring, we will then be meeting again to look at actual capital planning, not just capital. Matthew Allison If I may add, are you finished with that one? Yes. Can I add to that please? I I watch the select board meeting Tuesday and it was discussed there were there were three out of the top 10. There were three. That the town manager ranked differently than the community and in addition something that came up with the select board meeting. Was the forecast the 10 year look look ahead for the requests that were submitted? There were almost $40 million in capital requests for the next 10 years, and damn near 20 of them were the TC Paseos and Turkey Hill. Richard Harris Yeah, $20 million in the next 10 years. Matthew Allison For building maintenance of these. Matthew Brenner I can share if you'd like. I can shed a little more light on some of that. Well, no, I don't think it's well in like the Turkey Hill requests are interest. And the reason Mr. Beard? More on the school committee and probably other school committee members because certainly tell you more than me but. One TC pass years was handed off from the ownership by the schools to ownership by the town. There was some push back at various levels because the building was not in good condition. And that is in the eye of th e beholder, etcetera, etcetera. I'm just giving feedback and things that. I have been told. Now Turkey Hill is in a place where they're looking at saying. OK, if this remains a school, what do we need if this is to be handed off to the town, what work would have to be done? For this building to be acceptable to the town, in addition to this, Turkey Hill is hitting some really. Interesting and frustrating roadblocks with things like ADA at you are not going to hear me be critical of ADA personally. However, it certainly presents a challenge where once you hit a certain threshold of work on a building, you then have to bring it into full ADA compliance. And while that at times might sound simple, having a large concrete structure with load bearing walls in various locations that can make it much more tricky to accommodate things like modern turn like modern required turn radiuses for wheelchairs and things like that. As one example, all of that together means there is a comprehensive plan for moving Turkey Hill forward. There's hopes that there will be grants available to mitigate that exactly what that would look like is unclear because I forget the name of the state organization t hat normally issues grants for schools and and I thank you always has different kind of goals for having. They're giving out their money. They're also changing. Some of their expectations and the new wording is fundamentally unclear. It used to be something like must be a school for 10 years after you use the grant. Now it is effectively, and I'm super paraphrasing. For the lifetime of the upgrade. Well, what does that mean? There are windows at Turke y Hills that are the age of the building, 50 year old windows. Does that mean if you go grant? To replace Windows at Turkey Hill. That the building has to be a school for another 50 years now the town is asking these questions. They are not getting or to my knowledge. Have not received. Concrete answers and this is all things are trying to be thought through, so there is a lot there for Turkey Hill that may or may not actually. Come to pass due to grants due to anticipated future need as well as it's kind of an illustrative component because mayhaps. The and this is from other conversations. I can't say this was the school committees explicit goal, but there comes a moment you look at how many millions of dollars it takes to maintain to keep a building. And it may end up being a more. Prudent fiscal choice to demolish it. And go into. But you can't really figure that unless you actually start to have a handle of what those long term costs will. Be to bring. It up to the quality that's necessary, so it's a bit long winded, but that is why. Like the Turkey? Hill goes out because we may need to keep it as a school. The town may want to keep it or we may need to know the actual cost so we can decide. If it's worth keeping. Matthew Allison OK. I guess I guess my my point of bringing that up might have gotten lost in the weeds. I apologize. I think I think our las t year's total annual budget was $40 million for the town. I believe that was the case, something close to $40 million. So if the long term capital plan for 10 years is saying, well, we need $40 million. No, $20 million for schools for two old schools. That's a little ridiculous in my mind, however. Only 4.8 of that was for trip to TC Paseos and 14.8 of that was for Turkey Hill. Quite quite. I'm pretty sure that Jerky Hill is is 15 to 20 years newer. Regardless, and the capital plan, basically it was mentioned at the select board meeting was typically averaged at one and a half million per year for the last 10 years. I think I'm sure they gave. The last but. Looking at the the the 10 year forecast, one year was funding the capital plan at $13 million. That's a little ridiculous. Matthew Brenner And that's why these are requests and that's why it's this is the numbers were given in part to help make a long term capital plan. And knowing that some of these are needs, we request for Turkey Hill, for example, I have my own opinion about various capit al plan requests that come through right. Some seem more necessary for the town to function than others, to my estimation. The ones for Turkey Hill look to be unfortunately necessary, like even from a. From a standpoint of how can a building continue to ex ist and? Matthew Allison Or be legally. Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 20=== Habitable by the tap, but this accounts no. Additional grants, nothing else. So there's, I agree, the money as it sits there doesn't look right yet. That doesn't mean it's the only way, sure. But being the building it is capital as. Matthew Allison Well, I just wanted to make that point. Matthew Brenner Thank you. Thank you. Richard Harris What type of inflation factor they including in? Matthew Brenner That I do not remember off the top of my head because it's. Richard Harris Not uncommon for communities to get the inflation exist and or invest drastically, and that's really I'm. Matthew Allison Or underestimate it. Richard Harris Now 49 or 10 years, I'm actually surprised it's that low. Matthew Brenner OK. Anne Aubrey I also know that 63% of the. Last three years goes towards schools over the whole budget. Richard Harris Yeah. And that's screw it. It turns out raising the next generation of humans is costly. Industries is not uncommon for older metal buildings to be spun off to private. Matthew Allison Entities for I'm sorry for. Richard Harris What is not uncommon for old? Mr. Buildings be spun off five seasons. Matthew Allison Considering school buildings. Richard Harris That the reason being is that there's a big capital spends to upgrade them, and there's a historic building then developers are converting it to. Income producing can get tax credits and leverage private money with tax credits that municipal entities can't use. So it's it's not uncommon for those old buildings to to go that way for that reason. Matthew Brenner Yeah, this is. Next year, is it going to be interesting? And I even mean that I don't mean that derisively. Again, the I think it's worth noting just while we're talking and while members of the public hear us talking about, Oh well, this is a problem, that's a problem. Their problems. One of the pieces of feedback. You know, say here before and I'll say it again. The feedback we've gotten from our plan from our consultants working on the comprehensive plan with us is that. When the birds are hitting the curve. Our the things the town has, our buildings, our roads, everything are in much better condition than is typical. Now people here then go, but they're not in good condition. And I'm not looking to debate whether or not they're in good condition, because tha t is certainly that is not an empirical statement. Matthew Allison We're not necessarily good, we're just less crappy than everybody else. Timothy Willsmer It's just where the scale starts. Yeah, that that. Matthew Brenner The empirical thing would be we are in a much better somewhere between a OK and much better place. Than the gross majority of other communities in this state. And if you look at Lunenburg and say, but we have all these issues, you're not wrong. But welcome to A reckoning that is coming statewide nationwide maps. So I'm going to move this on before I wax a little political on that one. Economic Development Committee has not met and will, I believe, be. Tim Battles I think we're. Matthew Brenner Slated to meet this Thursday, but I don't know that I have seen a agenda, so I. Will follow up on that. But I have on. My notice I'm supposed to make sure I can get the room unlocked, so got to make sure we have a meeting, stormwater task force all right. Timothy Willsmer The the Board has a direction. Finally it was explained in really simple terms as to what exactly the board it's about, because I've had all of the freestanding words, but never an explanation of what it is and basically the. Idea is to create its own. Fund for stormwater work so that the DPW ===PAGE 21=== can't be like we're using DPW guys. Sometimes they've got to go do other DPW stuff is just money directly dedicated to doing stormwater stuff we are. Starting to get things moving. Starting to find the right people to talk to. We pulled a lot of information from Concord, who has recently went through and set up a stormwater enterprise fund. We are having some meetings with our. Contract with engineers to see if we can't start getting what exactly is that we need to do to make this fund exist and we're looking to have this on the spring town meeting for 2025 is our goal, Mr. and I'm the Chair now. Matthew Brenner Mr. Rosen receives the Matthew Brenner Award for golly am I glad to hear that news tonight. Matthew Allison I have a question on that too. Are you guys permanently moved to meeting into DPW? Amanda Reid I I don't think. Timothy Willsmer It's permanently. It's just been convenient at this point in time, OK, if they're actually one of the thing I was hoping. To do with them. Is kind of tap into the master plan network we've been building to get some information out there and information in. At the moment. Matthew Allison Would be willing. Timothy Willsmer To take public comment, if it makes it easier for people to, you know, move the meetings. But currently it's been working for us. So we just kept. Matthew Brenner There. So if people have feelings about where the stormwater task force meetings are, if members of the public, how should they reach out to get that information? That's a good question. I guess we the agenda, we've got zoom meetings. Timothy Willsmer Like everything, so if they have the agenda, they can jump in the. Zoom meeting. Or they can come down to the DPW in person. And and say whatever you know is on their. Mind or they think. Would be helpful. OK, great. Thank you. Matthew Brenner Oh, launches you submit regional planning. I forget my see Miss Reed. Help me. Commission. Thank you. I'm like, I know it's n ot committee. Amanda Reid So we haven't met since the last meeting. Our next meeting is. On the 8th. Matthew Brenner And Montachusett Joint Transportation committee. Amanda Reid Many correct. We did meet. I have no notes from that meeting. It is mostly. Just housekeeping kind of stuff, budgeting and going over projects happening in other towns, really applying to leader and their next meeting is on the 14th, all right. Matthew Brenner Solar bylaw subcommittee Miss Reed and I have not had the opportunity to meet, I think Miss Reed, would you be available over the next couple of weeks for us to get together so I don't know what your schedule looks like, but could we pencil in some time later? Over the next couple of weeks to get together and start hammering out ideas? Amanda Reid Yes, absolutely. I will say that I am going to be out of town for the the 7th of February, but I can always prefer julier we can meet before then. Matthew Brenner OK, banger. Alright. Thank you and Civic Rd. subcommittee. Timothy Willsmer Matt and I have discussed a little bit. We haven't had any proper meetings about it, but other towns have a lot of good ideas and practices that they have in place. I think I've got a list of like 12 different towns and they're on the books, scenic roads bylaws. Yeah, if we want, I can. I can really briefly go through a. Couple of things that I really liked out there. I think the one that. Matt and I have discussed before conquered has. I'm assuming they went through there like town Historical Society. They've got kind of histories and. The descriptions of what the roads are like, why what what this road is about, why it's important to keep it looking nice and the way it is. That was conquered. Weston had one that I really liked in terms of. Because it's, it's not just the tree being there, it's how the tree looks and with everything else, they've also got specifications that cutting all of the branches off of a tree counts is no longer making it applicable for a scenic bylaw like they've got specifications. And if you cut a certain number of branches over this diameter. It it affects the the esthetic of the tree in the road and therefore counts as removing a tree f rom a scenic Rd. Wayland had some really good plain language descriptions, I think between layma n's plain language descriptions and Concorde historical narratives. There's some really good things to put out there for the public before time the town meeting be like. This is why it's important this. Is why you should care about it. That's the majority of what I've got. Otherwise it's just going to be a lot of pulling apart other towns specifications or bylaws and making them our own. Matthew Brenner Love it. Thank you sirs. Matthew Allison ===PAGE 22=== Thank you. Matthew Brenner All right. Next up will be meeting schedule as a reminder that the Planning board meets at 6:00 PM and all meetings are held here at Town Hall unless otherwise. Indicated our next two upcoming meetings are on February 12th and February 26th and I hope to see all the public wonderful l y engaged as they wish. Ongoing items master plan. I can throw out a couple more things from recent calls with that team, which is the existing conditions report is up. You can go to playing.org. And find it. You want to know what's going on. Like basically this is the report speaking to the board, especially to members of, yes. Timothy Willsmer When, when did that go up? Like within just the last couple of days. Bill and I from the DPW were looking for it last Thursday, and I just maybe couldn't find it. Let me. I could tell you when I was told that give me one moment. Matthew Allison It could be in our drive to. Oh, could be right, because we do have a master plan, yeah. Matthew Brenner I had this discussion on the 2nd of January. Maybe it is now public. Maybe it's just to us. I'll double check that but. Speaker OK. Matthew Brenner Regardless the and if you can't see it yet, down you will be able to at some point, or maybe in the finish project, but the existing conditions report that this is what is Lunenburg now what? What is here? What are the existing strengths? The existing challenges? Over under reported about thi s at the last public meeting and the wonderful consultants kind of said, here's where we are. Got more feedback from people, we nt back and reviewed. Has spoken with the steering committee, has spoken with others to get this holistic review of where is the town now, and it's not my opinion. It's not your opinion, it's the collective opinions and. Just as important, the raw data to back up with facts. Here's where the town is. Again, it's an opinion whether or not. Our municipal buildings are in good condition is measurable fact that they're in better condition than most other municipalities. Also the at the February 1st. Meeting they will. Be taking a first pass at presenting potential goals. To the town. Based off of the feedback from these surveys, if you've been taking surveys, thank you. Keep it up, there's going to be more over the next yea r and a half. Keep taking them. They are crucial. It's not just one. Because each one's different is drilling down further. So thos e community that those community meetings coming up in February 1st Real deal at least in part with the first pass at these goals. The master plan i s about where Lunenburg wants to be, and this is part. Of how we get there. I'm looking there's nothing else on this list that needs. It it really is relevant for today for ongoing items. So I will turn to public comment. If there are any ghosts in the room, we feel like speaking this. W ould be your opportunity. Seeing none, Miss Aubrey, there's no one in the zo om waiting room, is there? OK. Board comment concerns. Amanda Reid I just had one. I'm going to be out of town for our next meeting, but I'll be on zoom board. Matthew Brenner Thank you. Matthew Allison I have one, so the we we trust department earlier tonight in the meeting the A&R our our A&R submission requirements state something about Board of Health input, right? What do they state that has to be? Richard Harris I can, I know. And it has to be submitted to. Matthew Allison Board of Health. So it's it's not required that there's feedback from the Board of Health before the A&R is submitted. To the planning board. Richard Harris I'll have to check in. Matthew Allison Could it could? It be if it's not that way, no. Richard Harris Basically, under state law, if someone feels they are entitled to endorsement, they submit a plan and you can't require them to get approval from another board for the submit the plan. Matthew Brenner So I know we. Cannot require approval from another board can. We require because. What we don't require, we we don't require that the Board of Health approve what they're doing. We require that they get info from the Board of Health so that they are knowledgeable about what they're doing. Richard Harris I'm really inquire that but. As long as we don't push back on it, and so far, apparently nobody's pushed back on. Matthew Allison Well, in, in, in conversations with Brian, the building inspector, he indicated that. His understanding is we shouldn't have signed that A&R last meeting for the 728 Goodrich because for one, it does cut the existing septic off the existing. And for two th ey did not have a design plan ===PAGE 23=== approved or submitted or I'm not sure that it's maybe submitted, but my understanding was that his feelings were that we shouldn't have signed that we had we had. Richard Harris I think you signed it anyway if, because. I know from experience that. If a house doesn't have septic on its prop. It is permissible for them to accept the keys from another piece. Of property. Sure, if in fact. We did a project, we had a project done. Where the other properties on the. Other side of the road. And they poured under the road. For the septic tank and Board of Health, it's a fine. Matthew Allison Well, so there's got to be something that that there has to be something about NNR not. Allowing a septic system to be cut off from the existing house because that makes it non conforming. Richard Harris We cannot create not from lot and rezoning. Matthew Allison So regardless of the law, I mean the lot with the house on it is non conforming without a. Richard Harris Septic we cannot create if if the zoning requires the septic beings aren't the same property. You can't create enough funds. Usually zoning doesn't address that. Zoning, usually septic, is addressed by port of health mountain zoning. Anne Aubrey So I do know that in the AR procedure that it it's on our website it says that we need endorsement for Board of Health compli ance. Prior to submitting and our application. The applicant, if we can. Discuss that specific. Of Goodridge Street, but. Richard Harris If an applicant wants to challenge it. And this man, now you know, without a board of help with you. And you let 21 days lapse. They can go to town clerk and get the certification. Tim Battles I get you. Matthew Allison But it still wouldn't have our signatures on it. Anne Aubrey End up getting that property an endorsement from. Jim Graphy or I did just say I mean. Timothy Willsmer OK. Anne Aubrey It was there was miscommunication. Matthew Allison Very good. Hey, Sir, that discussion is what prompted me to bring it up tonight so. Matthew Brenner That's very good. Thank you. Matthew Allison And and and again it's it's been it's been it's been decade plus that I've been complaining about the lack of communication and and and interaction with with different officials and different boards and groups. And I am very extremely happy to have Brian on board. Just the building Commissioner right now that we have is is, is top notch and very open to having discussions and. Richard Harris So it's very hard. To keep top notch, but it's by the Commissioners. Matthew Brenner Kudos. Thank you. We are lucky and grateful. All right. Any other board comments or concerns? Hearing none I would entertain. Richard Harris If I could, I'd just like update 4. Please on 711 mass Ave. We have site visit today because they've got the storm scepter in place. I'm sorry. Can you interrupt because with that the one we have the cease and desist on the corner? Yes. Thank you. Those wi ndow problems back in November? Inspection. But Brian, Bill and I met with the. And represent of the developer as a father of one owners and. On their engineer and another member of the team up there and looked at the storm Subs in place. They want to do an interim storm water system, which is. Actually good idea which I'm used to applicants showing their interim construction stormwater as opposed to just the final one because usually the final one they don't do until they're. Ready to put clean runoff into it? And Bill and Kate from DPW indicate he's fine. What they want to do, so I instructed the engineer to give us a letter detailing the alternative, the interim measurement to, and then I'll send that to DPW for their review and sign off. And then we'll put on the board's agenda for consideration and approval. Is that something that requires public hearing or is OK? Is is a meaningless change is basically update, you've got a storm sector and you don't want to be running. A lot of dirt. Until they're ready for the final pay, the. Payment being done. And so the the talent in my ditch to bypass it during construction and Bill was very sati sfied. What they wouldn't do. So it makes sense. And then they would finish it and then. Before they got CEO's. They would have all. Finished out. Tony Daseas ===PAGE 24=== OK. Richard Harris But there would they be a management stormwater on site without damaging ones, not damaging all site property and without fil ling up the stormwater system with. Matthew Brenner Thank you, Mr. Harris. Matthew Allison Can I comment on that twice so I understand the storm Scepter is is is a a separator for for sediment and it's only required for run off direct runoff from pavement? So yes, obviously it's not required until they pave. Richard Harris And now I'm the decision. Speaker They had to have. Richard Harris Them done before they get it built before they get a building. Matthew Allison Permit, right? But but also, I mean, I mean, I've been in the industry for 25 years and and they they they're often times the last thing to go in. Right. Are we unusual from other towns that we don't speak to that or. Richard Harris I was. I've been surprised not seeing. Construction interim. Construction measures and the plans and just seeing the final. Matthew Allison I have two but. Do we require? Richard Harris It no, I mean now. So they mentioned that and Bill said you're going to do. This before you. Well, that's what the town requires. And so, and they say what? And they they explain what they want to do and just that that seems. I could approach and so I said, putting writing. Let's get bills sign off on it, and then I will review it. Matthew Brenner OK. Thank you. Matthew Allison Now is that also going to get a peer review before it? Richard Harris Comes to us signs off. Matthew Allison On it, he's going to be. Richard Harris Hurry up to board your feet. Matthew Allison And he's not a peer review either. He's an employee of the town. I think it would behoove us to have. The peer review. Richard Harris That that'll be a board side when I have preview. Matthew Brenner Is that something we can decide? Now to make the process go smoother. Richard Harris Yeah, if you want have preview of that then yes. Matthew Brenner I think, yeah, I I I hear what you're saying, Mr. Allison. I to me, that makes sense. Mr. Rosner, you're also an engineer, so I hear your thoughts as. Timothy Willsmer Well, I'm gonna hear any board members thoughts. I'll solicit your thoughts. Sure. I mean, that is a pretty common setup in dot work is a a 25, a 75 or 100% than a finished product in terms of like what is it that you plan on doing on your different steps and what are you doing? Keep everything in line while you're working on it. So I'm. Totally behind that is an idea. Matthew Brenner And you and you think it is a good idea for us to have a peer? Review of this setup. Yes. OK, great. Do we need? To vote on t hat or I will. Richard Harris Would suggest taking vocals on the. Matthew Brenner Agenda. That's what I was thinking. But we can. Richard Harris ===PAGE 25=== We share a letter from them before the next meeting. And I can do is how do you handle previews? Just send off to graves when comes in or. Matthew Allison I believe so. Matthew Brenner Yeah, that, that's that is something that's magically handles for us. We say is there a peer review and then this side of the. Table tells us and it's wonderful. Matthew Allison Either no or yes and. Richard Harris It appears. How will they will do then is when we get the description in the same to graves and say this one to propose and do it and. See what their response. Matthew Allison Is can we make some kind of a communication without having the? Action to that effect so that we don't have to. Richard Harris I am understanding from boards this the policy that's been done and so we're following boards prior, prior procedures and. Be sure it gets done great. Sounds good, OK. Matthew Brenner Wonderful. Any other board comments or concerns? Hearing none, I would entertain a motion regarding adjournment. Timothy Willsmer Motion to adjourn the meeting. Matthew Brenner Second, moved and seconded all in favor, Miss Reed. Mr. Willner? Aye, Mr. Allison. All right. And and I from myself, our frie nds having town. Thank you for joining us. Have a wonderful evening and I look forward to seeing you in another few weeks. Take car e.