# planning-board — 1 documents, concatenated for reading and search # # This is a CONVENIENCE BUNDLE, not a source. Every document below is # published separately and byte-identically; cite the individual file, # whose path is given in each header, rather than this bundle. # Index of all boards: https://lunenburgbudgetproject.org/minutes/INDEX.txt # The town's own scanned original is linked per document. ======================================================================================== DOCUMENT : 2023-12-11-minutes-6113.txt BOARD : planning-board DATE : 2023-12-11 KIND : minutes OUR COPY : https://lunenburgbudgetproject.org/docs/minutes/text/planning-board/2023-12-11-minutes-6113.txt TOWN PDF : https://www.lunenburgma.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Minutes/_12112023-6113 ======================================================================================== ===PAGE 1=== TOWN OF LUNENBURG Office of the Planning Board Matthew Brenner, Chair Tel: (978) 582-4147, ext 5 Matthew Allison, Vice Chair Fax: (978) 582-4353 Amanda Reid, Clerk 960 Massachusetts Avenue Erik Torgersen, Member Lunenburg, MA 01462 Timothy Willsmer, Member Richard Harris – Interim Land Use Director Joeci Gilchrest – Interim Administrative Assistant Minutes December, 11 th, 2023 Meeting Posted: Yes Place: Town Hall, 17 Main Street, Lunenburg, MA Time: 6:00 p.m. Present: Matthew Brenner, Matthew Allison, Amanda Reid, Adam Burney, Timothy Willsmer Absent: Erik Torgersen Minutes, 12/11/23 Audio file 2023.12.11_17.54_01.MP3 Transcript ===PAGE 2=== NOTE: Speaker 6 is otherwise known as Amanda Reid 00:17:39 Richard Harris No. Give the notice. Technology is not an option. 00:17:45 Matthew Brenner Great. All right, so good evening, everybody. Thank you for joining us at this belated start to the Lunenburg Planning Board meeting. Technology being where it is, we are not currently. Being recorded, but that may change at any moment. Once those issues get ironed out, the meeting anticipator should be non zoom tonight. But again there's a technical issue involving that. As well, and we by the nature of our notice are still allowed to meet run the meeting this way, if you have any questions when we get to public comment about.The legitimacy of this, or anything else, feel free to ask in just a moment in public comment, because I do want to have off any concerns there first. Otherwise, there's a lot of things we normally say that I don't know if we have to say we were not being reported, but this meeting is at town hall as we know because we were in town hall. Yeah, I believe that would be it. Again, the recording may turn on at any point without notice. That is what it is. All right. Thank you. And have you still got recording? OK, great. Perfect. Good call. Thank you. Awesome. 00:19:07 Anne Aubrey At 6:00. 00:19:13 Matthew Brenner And as always, we're open with any public comment. Seeing none. 00:19:23 Matthew Brenner And we have three public hearings on the agenda for tonight, 3 continued public hearings, now, 171 Alder St. for the definitive subdivision plan and stormwater management permit, and 255 Seven Hill Rd. For the stormwater management plan.Being requested continuances. So those will be moved forward. Do now do we need to do anything about that at the meeting we need to continue to? 00:19:55 Richard Harris You make a motion to move.Make motion to continue to date and time certain both of them.And also on Arbor St. To agree to the extension of the deadline for plan board, make decision from February 15th to April 15th. 00:20:18 Matt Allison I could, I'd say so. Move to 171 Arbor St. Does that work? 00:20:23 Matthew Brenner For the extension. 00:20:25 Richard Harris First I would move to continue the hearing to the date and time certain and then make a.Motion to agree to the.Authorization to the extensi on of the deadline. 00:20:34 Matthew Brenner No, miss. Mr. Harris, I will ask your opinion on one thing, because we've been doing the the scenario where we have members of the public who come in ready to talk about something only to them be informed. We're not talking about it at the. 00:20:49 Matthew Brenner Last minute. 00:20:50 Matthew Brenner It's kind to the developers to say, oh, well, we'll just bump out to next. 00:20:55 Matthew Brenner Time but. 00:20:57 Matthew Brenner I am I am experiencing some frustration there with the fact that with members of the public who keep making the drive and cle aring their calendars, how much time do we do you? 00:21:07 Matthew Brenner Estimate we might need to give them to get their act together and not keep asking for continuances. 00:21:13 Richard Harris They're they haven't responded, even as to when they've been plans yet the plans are effective and need to be submitted. They apparently have them down. They haven't submit them, so they should be assumed in time. 00:21:26 Richard Harris I think the second meeting in January should be ample. Our loss is just at some point or should talk about the policy on that issue. 00:21:31 Matthew Brenner All right and. 00:21:37 Matthew Brenner I would like to put that on our agenda for the first. 00:21:41 Matthew Brenner Meeting in April. 00:21:43 Matthew Brenner Sorry in January so that we could maybe then know a week ahead of time if they can't make the second meeting. 00:21:50 Richard Harris Yeah, my price has been a week ahead of time to question 10s week ahead of time for submittal of additional information becau se. 00:22:02 Matthew Brenner As you and I talked about earlier today, I'm a little tired of having to tell people sorry. 00:22:06 Matthew Brenner But not here again. ===PAGE 3=== 00:22:08 Richard Harris And the rationale week ahead time. 00:22:11 Richard Harris My price been that if somebody gave us a week ahead time notice we will send out a regular mail notice to the buyers just to post each saying, hey, you guys for continuance that we continue and that way is on showing up expecting here they have ample notic e. 00:22:25 Timothy Willsmer OK. 00:22:31 Richard Harris No, that's been changed. 00:22:33 Matthew Brenner All right, so you're fully recommendation. Well, I will take whatever motion for the board for continuing the hearing for 171 Arbor St. the mover deems appropriate. 00:22:49 IT So now. 00:22:52 Timothy Willsmer Motion to extend or. 00:22:55 Matthew Brenner I think to I think it's to continue the hearing. 00:22:59 Timothy Willsmer Thank you. To continue hearing for 171 Arbor St. and 255 Sunny Hill Road to the first meeting of 2024, which I think is January 11th, 888. Thank you. Oh, today's. 00:23:14 Matthew Brenner I will help. I will happily accept that if that's what you wish. Mr. Wismer, Mr. Harris recommended to the second meeting. But if you for either straight if you wish to go for the first. 00:23:25 Matthew Brenner That's fine, no. 00:23:26 Timothy Willsmer We can. We'll, we'll. 00:23:28 Timothy Willsmer Split them up. We'll make these efforts. The motion to continue the Arbor St. 171 Arbor St. meeting to the second meeting of 2024, which would be the. 00:23:33 IT Being able to slow down building. 00:23:41 Timothy Willsmer 20 seconds 20. 00:23:41 Richard Harris June 22nd. 00:23:43 Timothy Willsmer 2nd and continuing the 255 Sunny Hill Road to the first meeting January 8th. 00:23:50 Matthew Brenner We have to. 00:23:51 Matthew Brenner Give a time which is typically six O 5 for each. 00:23:54 Timothy Willsmer 605. 00:23:56 Matthew Brenner Is the combined motion OK? Yes. 00:23:58 Matthew Brenner Great. So move. 00:24:00 Amanda Reid I will second. 00:24:01 Matthew Brenner Moved and seconded. All in favor. Aye, aye. All right. 00:24:05 Richard Harris Aye, thank you. Need motion on agreeing to the extension. The deadline for the decision on. 00:24:16 Richard Harris 171 Auburn. 00:24:17 Matthew Brenner Street. So I think we do, we have to go back in. 00:24:21 Matthew Brenner The state though, or. 00:24:23 Richard Harris No, I think just for the record, they agreed to a or they. 00:24:28 Richard Harris Submitted an extension until April 15th of 2024. OK, the current deadline is February 15th, 2024. 00:24:39 Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 4=== All right, great. It was moved second, moved and seconded. All in favor, aye. 00:24:40 Anne Aubrey OK. 00:24:48 Matthew Brenner All right. Those are moved out and the extent and the extension agreed to by both parties, wonderful that moves us to the pub lic hearing. 00:25:02 Matthew Brenner 4360 Flat Hill Rd. 00:25:07 Timothy Willsmer I think we need. 00:25:08 Matthew Brenner To I think we do need to. 00:25:08 Matt Allison Read the update. 00:25:10 Amanda Reid Do we need to read the legal because the? 00:25:11 Amanda Reid Letter continues. OK. 00:25:13 Speaker 6 Let me get that. 00:25:19 Speaker 5 We're having an issue with Comcast. 00:25:22 Speaker 5 So we're not gonna be able to go live. 00:25:24 Speaker 5 But some here, as we call it. 00:25:26 Speaker 5 Meeting with zoom. 00:25:27 Speaker 5 On their laptop. 00:25:30 IT OK. 00:25:30 Amanda Reid We're doing an audio recording. 00:25:34 Matthew Brenner Now there is some kind of. 00:25:35 Amanda Reid Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. Thank you. 00:25:39 Matt Allison A record. 00:25:43 Matthew Brenner And because of my phone, they've picked up part part of that part of our television staff came out just to make sure that. 00:25:50 Matthew Brenner The meeting could be recorded. 00:25:54 Matthew Brenner Because I don't know what the microphones really won't pick up. 00:25:59 Speaker 6 Good. OK, the Lunenburg Planning Board will hold a public hearing on November 13th, 2023 at 6:05 PM should we say December? 00:26:07 Matthew Brenner There's another one for December 11th. I have that here, if you. 00:26:11 Speaker 6 Want it? I think I might have it. 00:26:15 Matthew Brenner It says it's legal 36.360 flat hill dot the date. 00:26:22 Anne Aubrey The public hearing notice was resent out basically for this date, so it should. It's already in the drive OK. 00:26:29 Speaker 6 Perfect. I got it. There were just two in there, sure. 00:26:34 Speaker 6 OK, the littler planning Board will hold a public hearing on December 11th, 6:05 PM, Town Hall, 17 Main St. Lunenburg, Mass. To hear and review a scenic Rd. application under Chapter 40, section 15 -C Massachusetts General laws for 360 Flat Hill Rd. Parcel #0. 00:26:54 Speaker 6 87-0025 -0000 applicant and owner, Peter and Lisa Patino at 360 Flat Hill Rd. Materials are available for viewing at the planning Offi ce at 960 Massachusetts Ave. in Lunenburg, Mass. 00:27:13 Matthew Brenner All right. Thank you. And is Mr. Partner or representative here, please come on up. 00:27:23 Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 5=== And then when you come up, just again give your name and address even though it's readily repaired for the sake of. 00:27:28 Matthew Brenner The record. 00:27:31 Speaker 5 Hill 360 flat. 00:27:32 Speaker 5 Hill, Rd. Lunenburg, mass. 00:27:34 Matthew Brenner Great. Thank you. And you hear to us tonight for the scenic Rd. hearing for. 00:27:44 Matthew Brenner That property. 00:27:49 Matt Allison Excuse me. I'm sorry. Before we go further, I need to announce that I do have the potential of a financial interest. As my mom owns the property directly across the street. 00:28:01 Matt Allison I have been involved in the scenic Rd. permit from the beginning and have offered the recusal and it's not been requested or required. I'm not sure exactly what the terminology is for that. 00:28:14 Matt Allison But I do want to make that statement before we. 00:28:18 Matt Allison Get going. Where? What do we need to do? 00:28:20 Richard Harris About that you don't own the property across street. Your mother owns property. 00:28:26 Matt Allison I have direct financial interest, but yeah. 00:28:29 Richard Harris So you own the property Cross Street. 00:28:31 Matt Allison My mother owns the property across the street. 00:28:34 Richard Harris But you don't. 00:28:35 Matt Allison I do not. 00:28:36 Richard Harris I don't see we have direct as long as it's disclosed and that's fine. 00:28:38 Amanda Reid OK. 00:28:41 Matt Allison Good enough, it's disclosed. 00:28:48 Matthew Brenner Wow, this has been ongoing for some time. Mr. Parker, would you like to explain to us where just where we at? Would you like to ask for us where we are in this process and? 00:29:07 Matthew Brenner The remediation you're putting forward? 00:29:10 Mr. Parker Yeah. So I've been in town 21 years. I built the house on Hillcrest St. 20 years ago. I'm in the construction industry. That's my client that built that. Development there. So we built that house on 360. We moved two miles down the. Street so there wasn't a, we'll say, a view from where we were at. So I was an honest mistake. I hired somebody, come in that took out five trees. I think that were in the. Front there on the scenic Rd. If that's your mother or whoever that person is was over in front of my driveway every single time I had people there working as soon as she called. Adam came running up my St. come up to my front door and said, hey, you cut. 00:29:56 Speaker 5 Down 5 trees, I said. That's an honest mistake. I've been in town a long time. A lot of new person. I said I'll just take, I'll replace some, not a big deal. We went through the first phase. The second phase was to clean all the stumps and everything that. Was there? She came running down the street again. Adam comes to my front door, says hey, did you cut more stuff down? Said. No. What says you have now you have 10 trees. Are you just here? 2 weeks ago I have 5 trees. So that's the same. Spottle in that I had before. So then, if that's your mom, your mom came up and approached me, and the conversation was not good. And I asked her to leave or as. You call the cops. She left, and then we finished our project. And you know, he just accused me of that and kept on kept on at me. I'm replace them. They wanted me to use another place in town. I used central mass, obviously it. Was we moved in in June. Say this happened September. ===PAGE 6=== By higher central mass, we weren't putting trees in October, so we had a plan. The first agreement was have 5 trees and we're going to do that i n the spring. We totally agree to it, he said. Well, I just fill it out and and, you know, come in front of the board and and get it fixed no problem. A nd then all of a sudden. He shows up again, he says. You have 10. To me, I don't. It doesn't matter how big shoes I have. It was an honest mistake, but to have. Your mom or the person down the street come down the street and do what she's done is not right. OK, so I've been in town 21 years. I've never called the department in this in this whole town that responds. Within 15 minutes. 00:31:31 Matthew Brenner OK so. 00:31:33 Matthew Brenner Everywhere that what I like to what this hearing is about is specifically not about the actions of other townspeople. It's sp ecifically about the scenic Rd. And what now has to be a true replacement because trees. Were cut. 00:31:52 Matthew Brenner They, but when they shouldn't be because the town has adopted syndromes. 00:31:58 Mr. Parker So if it's five or ten, depending on which time Adam showed up, I'm more than willing to do that 10 trees in that in that area is not. It's just going to be overcrowded because it might be back -to-back, you know, so we agreed to six, three on each side of. 00:32:10 Mr. Parker The space and then he also did told me that I had. 00:32:15 Mr. Parker To put Clover leaves. 00:32:16 Mr. Parker Or grass in the front. But if you go to other spots within within the town on scenic roads, there's rock or or large construc tion. 00:32:25 Mr. Parker Zone, if you. 00:32:25 Mr. Parker Will so the DPW board, the W DPW director, approved the. 00:32:31 Mr Parker The Riff Raff, which we put that so that part has been done, central mass is going to do the trees. We've already ordered them for the spring. We said 5:00 to 6:00, depending on the spacing, because there's a wide, huge oak tree on the left hand side that takes up a lot of the area. So we'll we'll. 00:32:49 Mr. Parker Put them through that that area there. 00:32:52 Matthew Brenner All right. 00:32:53 Mr. Parker And I submitted the. So what we have, why the delay was was we I asked them for an approved list of replacement trees, if you will. There's no such thing. So then I asked him to support to give me what he's done in town with other people so I can just pick something. So I spoke to the owner of Central master came down and. 00:33:11 Mr. Parker And I submitted that picture and those species we want to treat several replacement. 00:33:17 Matthew Brenner All right. Thank you. I did speak on. 00:33:27 Matthew Brenner November 17th I did have a phone call with Mr. Bradley, the former Rangers director, just to get more information about kind of background and what's going on and. 00:33:43 Matthew Brenner Largely largely enough matches what Mr. Parker was putting forward, along with the observation that that area so proves to grow healthy may well not be able to sustain 1011 trees. 00:34:05 Matthew Brenner The I'm just going back over my notes quickly. 00:34:13 Matthew Brenner Because I have never thought here, I apologize. 00:34:20 Matthew Brenner I guess I will have the question. 00:34:26 Matthew Brenner My understanding of the situation was that the recommendation was that you check with a landscape of some kind to make sure that the trees were that would be there would be appropriate for compared with the high site environment being close to the road. 00:34:43 Matthew Brenner Would not grow so tall as to impinge on the power lines and make because of your table. Decapitate them and throw them anywhere as they want to do. 00:34:54 Mr. Parker ===PAGE 7=== So Keith Spitted, Keith told that business in town for him and he's done a lot of work with me, Gilchrist Street. So he came down, he said we're going to put him down about equal back to where the off the street a little bit where the oak tree and so go across. They're very Hardy enough to to withstand that. And there'll be enough. 00:35:10 Mr. Parker Off the road. 00:35:11 Mr. Parker That they will. So that's what. 00:35:13 Mr. Parker That said, you know the Unitel thing. As Adam explained to me, they'll grow underneath that. So wanting to be close won't be a problem with. 00:35:19 Mr. Parker The the lines and stuff at the. 00:35:23 Matthew Brenner All right. 00:35:25 Matthew Brenner A question I have about the rip wrap isn't for you. It may be for you, Mr. Harris. 00:35:37 Matthew Brenner Does the GPW really understand the DPW to speak to you so? 00:35:42 Matthew Brenner I'm not telling. 00:35:42 Amanda Reid That for the. 00:35:43 Matthew Brenner One second. 00:35:45 Matthew Brenner Does the DPW have any bearing on the scenic Rd. process? OK, that that's. 00:35:51 Mr. Parker So Adam referred to. 00:35:54 Matthew Brenner DPW is is like. 00:35:55 Timothy Willsmer The DPW knows. 00:35:57 Anne Aubrey Direct the director of the DPW is the. 00:36:00 Richard Harris Tree Warden is he would have. 00:36:01 Amanda Reid Oh, then. OK. All right there. 00:36:06 Richard Harris I've never heard the tree warden proposed rip rap instead of trees. 00:36:11 Matthew Brenner Well, but I'm I'm I'm hearing from Mr. Patton, that there would be trees and rip rap. I have no clue how trees grow with rip rap surrounding the m one way or another. I'm not at all. 00:36:24 Matthew Brenner An expert there. Alright, I turn to the board now. I kind of wanted to get us up up to pace with where we were and where we are. So I turn to the board for other questions. 00:36:42 Timothy Willsmer My only thoughts on this? 00:36:43 Timothy Willsmer And it's one that we started a discussion for. Like do we have a list of trees? No, we don't. That's definitely something that we should take a look at and hopefully rectify. My only kind of concern when it comes to tree replacement is. 00:37:00 Timothy Willsmer Not necessarily the uniformity, but just having a single species of tree out there. I don't know if this is this is probably something to look to in the future. Again, is the idea of having, you know, at no point, just all of one kind of tree, like we're not going to have that in other parts of the road like not, you know, nothing that we have is necessarily a single tree. 00:37:20 Timothy Willsmer All the way down. 00:37:21 Timothy Willsmer Some kind of you know spacing workout of like you know a couple of different varieties of trees or something to that effect. I don't really have anything for this. 00:37:31 Timothy Willsmer Incident in particular just getting some ideas on record. So when we start looking at this, we've got some things like that. Otherwise everything seems to be signed off. I don't know what else we would need at this point. 00:37:46 Speaker 6 I would agree with that. Just researching about this tree, I'm always concerned whether or not it's indigenous to the area if it's growing in the right climate. Obviously you talked to somebody who knew what trees belong. 00:38:01 Amanda Reid ===PAGE 8=== On that street, you know, just looking up the tree, it does grow in Massachusetts, so. I'm I'm fine with that, but I would agree that it a deeper conversation should be done, especially for telling our residents that. They have to replace trees. We should know what kind of trees. As a town we would like to see. I guess. I mean, this is, you know, it. It does grow in Massachusetts. I don't know how prevalent they are within Lunenburg, but you know. 00:38:34 Richard Harris That made the suggestion that sometime future, when the town has a single bylaw, one things you want to have in that is the planning board to develop rules and regulations, governance and growth. 00:38:48 Richard Harris And you probably want to look at what are the character of the trees that are on sink roads so that replacements are of a species that are similar to what's already there, because there's scenic because of what's there. 00:39:05 Matthew Brenner Have I got a good gender for item for us just later tonight, even actually. 00:39:22 Matthew Brenner I guess I don't have a great way of saying this and I don't mean it clearly when I say this, but I get that we're trying to make light. 00:39:32 Matthew Brenner After the fact. 00:39:34 Matthew Brenner And I and I understand the idea of honest mistake, but by the same token. 00:39:42 Matthew Brenner I hate they're replacing mature trees with baby trees like I I guess there's nothing we can do here and this is maybe my soapbox in that case, but I hope the mature trees were cut down in the area. We specifically said not to. 00:39:56 Speaker 5 Well, nobody specifically said that to us. All right. 00:39:58 Matthew Brenner So the road was the designated Scenic Rd. It was. 00:40:04 Mr. Parker I knew. I knew I didn't know. I only couldn't touch the wall because you guys haven't gone through this with the builder. OK, so I knew that, right? That's the only thing. I knew, and if I knew anything else believe. In 20 years I don't have one person that has bothered me as much as the person down the street, and I would have done it. That's all I'm telling you. 00:40:22 Matthew Brenner I I believe you. I would like to and the education component for us may be a better requirement of communication of some of these things in the future when property changes hands because. 00:40:48 Matthew Brenner You can't replace, right? 00:40:51 Matthew Brenner Yeah, as much as we're replacing where we are, you can't replace because it's not the same, but alright. Other please other q uestions, OK. 00:41:03 Matt Allison So I think. 00:41:04 Matt Allison Excuse me, I think you may be mistaken about who my mother is. Your your neighbors, you. 00:41:10 Matt Allison Obviously don't know them. Yeah. So we have, we have a very large piece of property across the street from you, the woman who was on our side of the road and you came out and screamed at her for harassing. 00:41:12 Mr. Parker No, I don't have enough flight type. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, sorry. OK. The lady in the in the salt box house to the right of my house. 00:41:22 Matt Allison You, not my mom. 00:41:25 Matt Allison That's OK. 00:41:27 Matt Allison The one you accused of harassing you from the other side of the room. 00:41:29 Speaker 5 She get accused. She did. 00:41:31 IT Got it. 00:41:31 Matt Allison OK, so you bought an $800,000 home on the scenic Rd. with a deed and the deed clearly states that your property that you paid 800,000 + 4 is subject to a stormwater permit from the town of Lundberg and a scenic Rd. hearing from the town of Lunenburg that were applied for by the developer. 00:41:51 Matt Allison Your buddy apparently and. 00:41:53 Mr. Parker Your tone of voice is not is not acceptable. ===PAGE 9=== 00:41:56 Matt Allison Is this fairly manna felt fairly matter of fact, Sir. 00:42:00 Matt Allison So to have an honest mistake on a on a the issue that's written down in the deed for your property seems a little bit extreme . 00:42:10 Mr. Parker OK. Anybody want their opinion? I appreciate that. So you just let me know what I need to do. That's all I have this all I'm asking. 00:42:17 Matthew Brenner So I understand the frustration here, because I I hear frustration on both sides and frankly I share frustration on both. I get the frustration on both sides. 00:42:32 Matthew Brenner This hearing is explicitly about. Normally will be about what can be done. Now it's about rectifying what has been done. 00:42:41 Matthew Brenner To that end, there is a proposal for six trees. 00:42:49 Matthew Brenner Specific species. 00:42:54 Matthew Brenner I have the common name here as flowing through redbud versus condenses. I guess what I would turn to us and say do we have other questions before we close the? 00:43:12 Matthew Brenner During and move on to deliberation. 00:43:19 Richard Harris Then for me. 00:43:24 Matthew Brenner Very good. Then, is there anything else you'd like us to know before we? 00:43:28 Matthew Brenner Close the hearing. 00:43:31 Matthew Brenner Wanna make? Just want to make sure you get all your info info out that you want? 00:43:35 Mr. Parker Yeah. No, no, no, I think that. Yeah, that's it. 00:43:38 Amanda Reid OK, great. Thank you. How's it going? You guys have to send me something and they'll say that you've approved the. 00:43:45 Matthew Brenner So what will happen now is we'll close the public hearing, we will deliberate and just immediately following and then we will have a vote. 00:43:56 Matthew Brenner About accepting or not. So I thank you. I do have to ask for public comment. I I apologize about that. Thank you, Mr. Allison. So before we close the hearing, I am going to invite for call of the members of the public. If you have anything else you want. 00:44:13 Matthew Brenner To share tonight, do let me know. 00:44:14 Matthew Brenner Just put your hand up. Whatever. We'll call you back up. OK. Thank you. And yeah, it is a public hearing. Would you need to a sk for public comment? Is there any public comment here tonight? 00:44:28 Matthew Brenner All right, seeing none. 00:44:32 Amanda Reid I would. I would. 00:44:33 Matt B Like to mention commercial harassing neighbor. 00:44:33 Matt Allison Mentioned the correspondence we got from the whip. 00:44:39 Matthew Brenner That we did receive a letter from new Susan Lauren at 377 Flat Hill Rd. 00:44:52 Matthew Brenner We will be proper in this because we received the correspondence. It's about the public hearing. Do we? We hit end, do we? 00:44:58 Richard Harris Get into the public hearing record. 00:45:00 Amanda Reid OK, very good. 00:45:04 Matthew Brenner Misery, would you be willing to read that? 00:45:06 Matthew Brenner Tonight am I having a? 00:45:27 Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 10=== I have again I have on. 00:45:28 Matthew Brenner My machine, if it's taking a moment, great. 00:45:29 Speaker 6 I got it. Just takes a second. 00:45:32 Speaker 6 Do we have? 00:45:33 Speaker 6 A date on this letter would we need to read a date of when it was sent in? 00:45:39 Matt Allison I think it was sent today, wasn't it? 00:45:41 Matt Allison Wasn't received today. 00:45:42 Anne Aubrey It was give me one moment. 00:45:50 Matthew Brenner I think we can read and then give the data afterwards as well. That would be, I think equally good. 00:45:54 Speaker 6 Dear planning board, the materials available at the Planning Board for the proposed scenic Rd. remediation at 360 Flat Hill R d. Show the homeowner choosing 6 flame thrower redbud virus Kenna, Dennis canadensis. 00:46:09 Speaker 6 Trees as replacement. 00:46:11 Speaker 6 Photos are attached below. I feel that a tree species native to the area is an appropriate replacement for a scenic Rd. Do you think this species of tree is in keeping with the look of the rural scenic Rd. and the surrounding area? Thank you Susan Whelan a t 377 flat. 00:46:35 Matthew Brenner And what was the date you received that? 00:46:37 Speaker 6 December 7th, dated December 7th. Thank you. 00:46:44 Matthew Brenner And do we have any other questions or any other public comment before we move on to deliberation? 00:46:53 Matt Allison I guess I just want to excuse me, clarify the honest mistake that was made two times in a row. 00:47:00 Amanda Reid Is that a valid question? 00:47:02 Matthew Brenner There are we have a look back at my notes one. 00:47:10 Matthew Brenner More time about that. 00:47:13 IT Awesome. Thank you so much. 00:47:18 Matthew Brenner So up. 00:47:22 Matthew Brenner It it is as miss from my notes. 00:47:26 Matthew Brenner Adam will concur with what Mr. Patmore said and what Adam did come back and say, hey, there are more trees cut lower. 00:47:35 Matthew Brenner And was performed by Mr. Patton, where those were. 00:47:39 Matthew Brenner Those were part of the initial cut, but that was all together at once, and if I'm misrepresenting the, so please come up and let me know I'm not. 00:47:48 Matthew Brenner Trying to. 00:47:50 Matthew Brenner Please so as presented as what Adam shared with me as well, effectively so. 00:48:00 Matthew Brenner You saw six everyday clarification that the initial 6-5 or six depending upon how you consider it through this branching growth that's coming through. Trump, arguably from a single root system and then believing they were taking down. 00:48:19 Matthew Brenner Later and. 00:48:21 Matthew Brenner Mr. partner, saying. No, that's not the case. They were all part of the initial and that it wasn't as. 00:48:26 Matthew Brenner Met please Sir. 00:48:28 Speaker 5 So phase one was the clearing of all the vines and the ID and of the trees. ===PAGE 11=== 00:48:32 Speaker 5 That we did it went from. If you look at it going up the driver to the right hand side to where the telephone pole goes all the way to the other side to where the telephone pole that was facing that was all wide open at that point. Adam showed up at the DPW director that day, the first day. 00:48:47 Speaker 5 Went down and looked and he sent me. 00:48:49 Speaker 5 Alone, said 5. 00:48:51 Speaker 5 So then when we came in to to like these stumbled, if you will, our nice neighbor came down the street, stood across the street called Adam. Adam come running down. And the first thing he said to me was you cut Maria. I don't even own that area over there. I said I own to where I I thought that was where I was. I said but whatever the number is that he goes well, we've been noticing now. 00:49:11 Speaker 5 Ten I go, Adam. 00:49:13 Speaker 5 Feels me. You would just call 10 minutes ago because my guys are here working and we have the lady across the street standing across the stree t talking to her neighbor, saying what was going on. OK, I don't own anything beyond that. I cleared that the 1st. 00:49:25 Speaker 5 Time. OK, so there wasn't. There wasn't two mistakes. There was 1 clear. OK, so if he didn't notice it. 00:49:33 Speaker 5 I didn't hide it it. 00:49:34 Speaker 5 Was wide open. OK, I own past those. 00:49:37 Speaker 5 All right. And and all the other thing, I think it doesn't matter if I want $100,000 house or $1,000,000 house comments like. 00:49:38 Amanda Reid I think. 00:49:44 Speaker 5 That from you. 00:49:45 Speaker 5 Not just not that. 00:49:51 Matt Allison Like to clarify how much of the rate of wave this applicant owns, I think it's 0. 00:49:56 Matt Allison That's what the public hearing is about. Public land that's owned along the frontage of his house. It's not his land. That's what this hearing is about is the town land that has been cleared on a scenic Rd. 00:50:10 Matthew Brenner Our technical overlays correct, but also understanding common payloads like we talked about. 00:50:17 Matthew Brenner We never talk about the loan we own. We often don't. So I won't say well, I'm mowing my front yard and a 5 foot wide strip away ends up being of the town land, but. 00:50:29 Matthew Brenner You are correct as well that it is time to right of way. Well, I would. 00:50:35 Matthew Brenner Encourage us to do. 00:50:38 Matthew Brenner Is the scenario now is what it is and. 00:50:46 Matthew Brenner Because because the previous trees grew there and. 00:50:53 Matthew Brenner Well, so natural as natural as you get next to a Rd. 00:50:59 Matthew Brenner In that equate natural environment in less than ideal circumstances. Planting new trees there, replacing with the weather whi le there's something we could certainly put forward. 00:51:11 Matthew Brenner There seems to be agreement on multiple fronts that putting 1011 whatever mother trees. 00:51:17 Matthew Brenner Would not actually need in the long term to large trees that seem to be the purpose of the scenic Rd. and about 6 soon to be the right number, again depending on species and everything. And Mr. Partner has received a recommendation on that. 00:51:36 Matthew Brenner So do you have any other questions before we move to deliberation? 00:51:44 Matthew Brenner All right, great. Then I will accept a motion to to close the public hearing. 00:51:53 Speaker 6 I'll move to close the public hearing on 360 Flat Hill Rd. 00:52:00 Matthew Brenner Second, moved and seconded all in favor, aye. ===PAGE 12=== 00:52:06 Matthew Brenner All right, public hearing is closed and now we can deliberate and try to come to a decision. 00:52:15 Matthew Brenner We have a proposal in front of us to replace with. 00:52:21 Matthew Brenner 6 where's canadensis? 00:52:27 Matthew Brenner In theory should be with an appropriate height in self tolerance for the area. 00:52:35 Amanda Reid What do you think? 00:52:38 Speaker 6 I'll put my two cents in I. 00:52:42 Amanda Reid I the tree. 00:52:43 Speaker 6 Choice is not great in my opinion. If you're replacing, I think there were oaks there before. These aren't going to grow as big, you know. But if we don't have a list of trees. 00:52:59 Speaker 6 That are proved beyond what's indigenous to the area. 00:53:05 Speaker 6 I don't think I personally can say no. These don't work. You know, they're they're not my favorite. But I think any tree is b etter than no trees. 00:53:16 Speaker 6 As long as they're not going to hurt the, you know, the other native flora populations. 00:53:25 Speaker 6 I think 6 is appropriate that the applicant did say that he worked with a a tree company that would know the area and know the types of trees and know what. 00:53:37 Speaker 6 Would work well. 00:53:40 Speaker 6 Whether it's ten or five trees, whatever that debate is. 00:53:44 Speaker 6 Is IF6 works in the space six would make sense. 00:53:49 Speaker 6 If you put. 00:53:50 Speaker 6 More than that, they'll choke each other out. And then you'll have a bigger risk of more trees dying or whatever else is native to that area. So that's my two cents. It's not the greatest of choice for the area, but. 00:54:05 Speaker 6 I feel like we don't really have a way of saying yes or no specifically to that trait. 00:54:11 Matthew Brenner And in terms of size, it was no. 00:54:17 Matthew Brenner Adam, even when he was nine years director, was not the Mr. Bobby was not the the word of God, because decisions are made by the playing board and all he could do was recommend, say. 00:54:28 Matthew Brenner I think if. 00:54:28 Matthew Brenner You did X. That might be something the board without, with the implication that it would definitely work, but. 00:54:36 Matthew Brenner Like from his experience, X would probably. 00:54:40 Matthew Brenner Be acceptable in some variants thereof, and part of that recommendation was trees that weren't going to grow as large because for those who own property near even those lines, they get to see the jail that is having our large beautiful trees turned into lo llipops that are. 00:55:01 Matthew Brenner 3040 feet tall, with wheels spread on top or whatever massacring they want to do. Now that I have my own opinions about the tree. Clear but. 00:55:14 Matthew Brenner So there are some limitations there as as well as the applicant. 00:55:20 Matthew Brenner Responding based on feedback he did receive from the Planning Office and I would echo pretty much everything you said myself, in my opinion is I'm not thrilled with it, but I I think it is really it is and I think. 00:55:37 Matthew Brenner To get more, we need to. 00:55:41 Matthew Brenner Look at some shifts. 00:55:44 Timothy Willsmer ===PAGE 13=== I think I'm, I mean largely the same boat and my the kind of thought experiment is is like what? What is it if all of the trees on this road are this the flame thrower red and like, what does that do? 00:55:59 Timothy Willsmer To how things work. 00:56:01 Timothy Willsmer And I think that's why like. 00:56:03 Timothy Willsmer My inclination is towards kind of a a mixed distribution like absolutely let people have, you know, unique. 00:56:11 Timothy Willsmer But still native. 00:56:12 Timothy Willsmer Plants like the the flame thrower would be here, but you know, largely I think our scenic roads are categorized by like maples or oaks. Evergreens , some shape or another, and like I think that's more. 00:56:18 IT Right. 00:56:26 Timothy Willsmer The specific like what our scenic roads look like. In particular, we're we're talking about doing that, not necessarily an in ventory that's too expensive, but like what is the character of these roads and is this right now, you know, this is this is where we are, these are the requirements that we have and everything meets those requirements. So just things to look for. 00:56:46 Timothy Willsmer In the future. 00:56:49 Anne Aubrey I just want to make note as well when the land use director was in the office and they were corresponding in regard to finding an approved list of trees because that was mentioned that it was recommended by Adam. 00:57:10 Anne Aubrey For the applicant to ask. 00:57:16 Anne Aubrey Advice from the landscaper in order to see what trees would be recommended so I don't have official correspondence in regard to that, but I know that it was discussed, at least in this process, so I just wanted to make note. 00:57:37 Amanda Reid Great. Thank you. 00:57:42 Amanda Reid Over Mr. Johnson. 00:57:43 Matt Allison So. So I'll add that until I believe does have a list of approved trees that they use for replacements when they do tree work, and I would imagine that they would all be indigenous, naturally occurring species of regular abundance. 00:58:00 Matt Allison And I would also encourage this board to look back on the previous scenic Rd. hearings that we've done and look at the trees that were propose d and approved and. 00:58:14 Matt Allison Pretty sure that all of them were naturally occurring indigenous species very similar to what was removed. I think that this is a slap in the face. I think that with 185 feet of frontage certainly can fit more than six trees. 00:58:22 IT OK. 00:58:33 Matt Allison There. But that's just my opinion. 00:58:42 Matthew Brenner Look, misery just said you did research. This tree type of it is native to the air. 00:58:47 Speaker 6 I did read it grows from Massachusetts, down through North Carolina, I believe. 00:58:53 Timothy Willsmer I got conflicting one. I got that and I got another one that says it starts at like New Jersey West. So that was a little bit difficult to rectify. I've seen enough that say Massachusetts and if if you know the landscapers they talked to also recommend. 00:59:12 Timothy Willsmer Sorry, I don't mean to cut over. 00:59:13 Speaker 6 No, it's right ahead. I feel like the like you said, it's a landscaping company recommended it they would be. 00:59:23 Speaker 6 Loosely termed as the subject matter experts in this. 00:59:29 Matthew Brenner I I don't personally have so. 00:59:33 Matthew Brenner To me, it's a new point because we have multiple and that we have not seen that enough sources saying is from Massachusetts, but in my experience, unless they're specialized, I've not found. Landscapers have generally a great deal of care for whether or no t a species is native. 00:59:54 Matt Allison I guess I'd further ask, is there any example of even one tree in the town of Lunenburg of that species? ===PAGE 14=== 01:00:02 Matt Allison That hasn't been furnished by a landscaping company. 01:00:10 Matthew Brenner Right. Absolutely no idea. I couldn't answer that one way or another. 01:00:13 Matt Allison I don't either. 01:00:18 Matthew Brenner Are there thoughts, questions, any questions for each other's concerns? 01:00:25 Timothy Willsmer What is it that we are approving or denying? Just that we find these six trees to be an acceptable? 01:00:34 Richard Harris OK, So what you're going to do is approve the plan for mitigation of the? 01:00:38 Richard Harris Damage that was done. 01:00:39 Amanda Reid OK. 01:00:45 Matthew Brenner Do we have any way of ensuring these trees are maintained in the long term? All right. 01:00:52 Matt Allison Is that a? 01:00:53 Timothy Willsmer We have any. 01:00:53 Richard Harris No. Yes. If you have a. If you had seen robot all then you'd have some tools for that. But we've already done the. Since thes e are were public shade trees, the tree would have had. 01:01:05 Richard Harris More authority than anybody else. 01:01:09 Matt Allison And has he given us any input? 01:01:12 Richard Harris My understanding him and the and Adam were in agreement with the proposal. 01:01:17 Matt Allison OK. So OK. 01:01:19 Richard Harris That's my understanding. 01:01:21 Matthew Brenner That, that, that. 01:01:22 Matthew Brenner Really is my understanding. 01:01:28 Matthew Brenner Hi, welcome more discussion. But if people are ready, I am also fine with taking the motion at any point as well. 01:01:41 Matthew Brenner And more thoughts on scenic roads in a looser sense will be available to us later as well. 01:01:57 Speaker 6 I think I'm fine with. 01:02:00 Speaker 6 Making a motion. Can I get the verbiage again? Is it to approve the? 01:02:01 Amanda Reid All right. 01:02:07 Richard Harris To approve the the mitigation plan for repair replacement the trees. 01:02:13 Richard Harris The damage that was done to the sink. 01:02:17 Matt Allison I have an issue with that because there's no plan before us. 01:02:21 Richard Harris The plan is plant 6 trees is plant in a very loose terminology. 01:02:29 Richard Harris The mitigation plan is plant 6 trees. 01:02:31 Matt Allison There, I don't think we've ever had a scenic Rd. hearing that we didn't have a plan presented to us with locations and dimens ions. 01:02:39 Matt Allison Quite honestly. 01:02:42 IT I mean. 01:02:44 Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 15=== Now we did have snow. 01:02:48 Matthew Brenner Miss Abby did. Did we have more info on this earlier, correct, or am I making I I feel like we. 01:02:57 Anne Aubrey Have it. 01:02:57 Amanda Reid Here. Thank you. 01:03:00 Anne Aubrey This is everything emails. 01:03:11 Anne Aubrey Better notice. 01:03:13 Anne Aubrey I mean, I have the. 01:03:15 Matthew Brenner Yeah. So we can pass this down as well, which is part of the submitted documentation. 01:03:24 Matthew Brenner That we didn't have previously, but it's not a. 01:03:30 Matthew Brenner I mean. 01:03:31 Matthew Brenner It is not a engineered plan, but I think it. 01:03:36 Matt Allison It's not even close to accurate. It's showing 20 feet on both sides of the driveway going and nearly to the extent of its 180 . 01:03:42 Matt Allison 5 foot width. 01:03:43 Amanda Reid Flop. That's not at all appropriate in my mind, but so. 01:03:51 Matthew Brenner You're saying that the frontage is 100. 01:03:54 Matt Allison 185 feet. 01:03:58 Matt Allison So it's these three members put together, these lines are almost parallel. That's 184.56. He's got 180 plus feet of frontage. 01:04:10 Amanda Reid OK. 01:04:14 Matt Allison So not only is that not to scale, it's not it's misrepresentative. 01:04:18 IT Did you? 01:04:19 Matthew Brenner You're saying that this is the so. 01:04:23 Matt Allison This lot 1 is is the the applicants. 01:04:24 Matthew Brenner Yeah, and here's what. Here's what. Here's what he'll do. And that's 185 feet there. Yeah. 01:04:32 Matt Allison Give or take. 01:04:32 Anne Aubrey I think that needs to be read. 01:04:42 Matthew Brenner I mean, I guess out in the place that we have multiple. 01:04:48 Matthew Brenner We have multiple sources who have said that for that area, so 6 trees is appropriate, including people who are. 01:04:59 Anne Aubrey Right. 01:05:04 Matthew Brenner Do we need to include people who are employed by the town of the time? Do we need to reopen the public hearing? 01:05:09 Matthew Brenner To incorporate something. 01:05:11 Richard Harris If you want to incorporate their centre. 01:05:25 IT When that was done, period problem. 01:05:25 IT Thank you. 01:05:29 IT ===PAGE 16=== Those we've done for a week. 01:05:31 IT And I don't. 01:05:31 IT Have cable. I don't think nobody's complaining. 01:05:39 Matthew Brenner We probably. 01:05:42 Matthew Brenner This is probably this is useful info for us to have, so we probably should read today. How do we how do we reopen a public he aring, do we? 01:05:52 Richard Harris Just vote still here, so make a motion second to reopen. 01:05:57 Matthew Brenner OK. 01:06:01 Speaker 6 Motion to reopen the public hearing for 360 flat little growth. 01:06:08 Matthew Brenner Second, moved and seconded all in favor. Aye aye, aye. 01:06:17 Matthew Brenner We do have just another piece that what is so I'm holding the paper with some info on it, but what is the full source on this miss ever? 01:06:28 Anne Aubrey So that is basically a. 01:06:34 Anne Aubrey Descriptive summary of the consensus of the tree warden on the where. Basically, typically with the scenic Rd. application the tree warden woul d be present for the public hearing. The tree warden produced a statement. 01:06:40 Amanda Reid OK. 01:06:53 Anne Aubrey To be on the record that they were on site and approved of the remediation basically. 01:07:02 Richard Harris Answer a little bit clarification that on sink road and it's also involves. 01:07:08 Richard Harris Public shade trees. 01:07:10 Richard Harris The and the trees have not been cut. 01:07:14 Richard Harris Then the hearing has to be a joint hearing of nine Ward entry warden and the trees get posted. Since the trees are already cut, his mind sending the tree warden. 01:07:25 Richard Harris The saying there is no need for a hearing by the tree water, therefore that's why this is strictly. 01:07:31 Matthew Brenner A planning board hearing and. 01:07:37 Matthew Brenner Am I OK? 01:07:38 Matthew Brenner Reading in just the second paragraph, or because the first one is just quoting mass general law, sure. 01:07:43 Richard Harris I mean the whole thing. 01:07:44 Amanda Reid How come I can do that? 01:07:46 Matthew Brenner Steven. Then I'll pass it down to members. Can see it as well. Scenic Rd. Planning Board and True Warden, public hearing NGO chapter. Further section 15-C provides in part that quote when a public hearing must be held under the provisions of this section and under Section 3 of chapter. 01:08:05 Matthew Brenner 87 prior to recovering or removal of the tree, such hearings shall be consolidated into a single public hearing before the true wording, and the planning board. 01:08:16 Matthew Brenner UN quote new paragraph as indicated in the attached e-mail dated November 7th, 2023, town tree, Morgan and DPW director William Bernard stated that a tree reading hearing under MGL 87 Section 3 is not needed since quote the trees have already been cut. 01:08:37 Matthew Brenner End Quote he further stated that he and the previous Landers director had reviewed the site about an hour after the trees were cut. He further stated that he agrees with the proposed remediation work, which will involve planting 6 new trees to replace the cut trees. 01:08:56 Matthew Brenner And that is the end of that piece stating that that the time tree reading is in agreement with the Six tree plant. 01:09:07 Amanda Reid Thank you. 01:09:11 Richard Harris ===PAGE 17=== Most point it puts in the record as to why it's not a joint hearing time. 01:09:14 Amanda Reid OK. 01:09:16 Amanda Reid All right. 01:09:20 Matthew Brenner Sees any more public comments since the hearing. 01:09:22 Matthew Brenner Is open and I should. 01:09:25 Matthew Brenner Seeing none, I will accept a motion to close the hearing so we can resume. 01:09:37 Timothy Willsmer Motion to close hearing and and continue deliberation. 01:09:41 Timothy Willsmer On 360 Black Hill Rd. I will second. 01:09:45 Matthew Brenner Moved and seconded. All in favor, aye. 01:09:48 Matthew Brenner Great. OK. So that is we now have it in the room is in here and officially the tree wardens agreement with the Six tree plant . 01:10:05 Matthew Brenner Mr. Allison, you. 01:10:07 Matthew Brenner Comment of earlier about it being a less robust presentation than we have had previously. 01:10:17 Matthew Brenner I personally feel that a lot of those we've had previously involved were because they were showing the specific trees to be cut as opposed to a replacing trees and that. 01:10:32 Matthew Brenner I don't think we have a lot of by law back in this right now about exactly how we require things to be presented. I would always like more details, but. 01:10:47 Matthew Brenner I guess I personally feel like this represents what's. 01:10:50 Matthew Brenner Going to happen in, kind of. 01:10:51 Matthew Brenner An already lousy situation myself. 01:10:54 Matt Allison OK, I've made it very clear in my opinion as a planning board member that the representation of 185 feet of frontage with two tick marks encompassing more than 2/3 of that area saying 20 feet each is extremely misrepresentative. 01:11:11 Matt Allison And I would not. I would not approve anything based on that plan. 01:11:31 Timothy Willsmer The front is is. 01:11:34 Timothy Willsmer That for the. 01:11:35 Timothy Willsmer Entire 4 because it's like 1 plot. 01:11:39 Timothy Willsmer That's been divided up into four. 01:11:43 Amanda Reid Thank you very much. Yeah. 01:11:46 Amanda Reid Block one on that, yeah. 01:11:50 IT OK. 01:11:51 Timothy Willsmer I see what you're. 01:11:51 Timothy Willsmer Looking at, thank you. 01:11:54 Timothy Willsmer The question for you. 01:11:55 Timothy Willsmer That the image on Google Maps do you? 01:11:57 Timothy Willsmer Know if that's. 01:11:59 Timothy Willsmer The Street View on Google Maps. Do you know if that's accurate to how it currently? ===PAGE 18=== 01:12:03 Matt Allison Street View. I think that's from like 1516 ish. I'm not sure the Street View is different from the area. 01:12:07 Amanda Reid OK. 01:12:09 Richard Harris You can click on that and I'll tell you the date. 01:12:12 Anne Aubrey And I'll tell you. 01:12:14 Timothy Willsmer Where is that usually? 01:12:17 Timothy Willsmer Months ago. OK. 01:12:20 Matt Allison Street View was three months ago. 01:12:25 Matt Allison Google's busy. 01:12:30 Timothy Willsmer OK, that was my question. 01:12:35 IT Yeah, I'm just trying to figure, you know. 01:12:36 IT I'm just. I'm OK with it. 01:12:41 Amanda Reid All right. 01:12:43 Matthew Brenner Looking for other thoughts. 01:12:46 Matthew Brenner Or not. 01:12:47 IT And So what? What? What am I not going to do? So. So doing live shows. 01:12:51 IT OK. 01:12:52 IT They're probably not. 01:12:53 Timothy Willsmer Sorry, I'm just unable to look at 2007 Google Street for you to get an idea of what the. 01:12:54 Speaker 7 Yeah, that's fine. 01:13:00 Timothy Willsmer Actual comparison is when it was just on the. 01:13:02 Amanda Reid Wall of Foley but. 01:13:04 Amanda Reid OK. 01:13:06 Matthew Brenner Understands that while we're foliage does include. 01:13:11 Matthew Brenner A lot of it being realistic includes a lot of Fair Asian trees that is not in the towns. 01:13:17 Matthew Brenner Right of way. 01:13:18 Matthew Brenner There is 100% within the applicants, right, you know is right to do. 01:13:21 Matthew Brenner Whatever they want with. 01:13:24 Timothy Willsmer I was mostly just hoping to get a distinction between like what it looked like and what it or what what it did before the tre es and after having trouble getting an actual edge. 01:13:39 Amanda Reid OK. All right. 01:13:43 Amanda Reid Coming on. 01:13:45 Matthew Brenner Of hearing concerns that I don't disagree with, but by the same token, we have a lot of people involved saying this is the correct remediation. I'm willing to accept it, even if. 01:14:00 Matthew Brenner Details seem fuzzy because I guess it is what it is and regardless of the measure. For me, regardless of the measurement list ed on the. ===PAGE 19=== 01:14:09 Matthew Brenner Map we know 6 trees were recommended. The people who are on site felt that way. 01:14:19 Richard Harris Did they recommend the painting size? 01:14:23 Richard Harris And what the height at time? 01:14:27 Matthew Brenner There was no recommendation on that now. 01:14:30 Matt Allison So no diameter, no spacing, no location. 01:14:30 Anne Aubrey I thought I saw. 01:14:33 Anne Aubrey Yeah, all I saw was 6 inches or higher. 01:14:39 Matthew Brenner Is it 6 inches or 6 feet or higher? 01:14:43 Matthew Brenner That that would be my. 01:14:48 Richard Harris You never played truth, yeah. 01:14:51 Matthew Brenner But yeah, that's like that's an easy mystery, right? 01:14:55 Richard Harris So if you make a motion, I'd suggest that you specify minimum height planting is 6 feet. 01:15:04 Richard Harris That will then have drive the diameter as well. 01:15:11 Richard Harris If your men band, but you'll be some size and a deadline for when they need to be planted. 01:15:28 Richard Harris And I mentioned spring. 01:15:30 Richard Harris So you you're one of the journalists you could get. 01:15:32 Richard Harris Them to June 1st or June 30th and. 01:15:36 Timothy Willsmer If those are marked, those segments are marked as 20 foot each. 01:15:48 Timothy Willsmer Six flame thrower. Red buds wouldn't fit in there. They've each got a. 01:15:55 Timothy Willsmer Like growth width of 10 to 15 feet. So at most if it is marked properly as 20 foot on there or sorry with the markings on there saying it's 20 foot 6 trees won't fit. 01:16:10 Matthew Brenner If the markings there are correct at 20 feet, then that would also imply that the driveway is roughly. 01:16:18 Matthew Brenner 2 1/2 feet wide. 01:16:20 Matthew Brenner So I I think the. 01:16:24 Timothy Willsmer Mr. Allison, what did you say for? 01:16:25 Timothy Willsmer The frontage was it was like 160. 01:16:27 Matt Allison It's over 180. 01:16:30 Matthew Brenner I'm. I will be comfy with us also specifying. 01:16:35 Matthew Brenner Of the trees being spaced appropriately for the species which seems. 01:16:46 Matthew Brenner Yeah, I mean that's. 01:16:47 Matthew Brenner You know you're spaced correctly. Yeah, for the species. 01:16:53 Timothy Willsmer If it is, if it is 180 feet, then you could put twelve of these in there space, correct? Yeah. I'm assuming you are. 01:17:05 Timothy Willsmer At 10 and you can fit 18. 01:17:07 Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 20=== That is true, but there is. 01:17:11 Timothy Willsmer Two out of the driveway say. 01:17:13 Matthew Brenner Well, so. 01:17:16 Matthew Brenner There's this debate about the number of trees that were taken. There exists. 01:17:27 Matthew Brenner The width of the tree is suggested is not necessarily the spacing for the trees as well, because some trees do have an additi onal width requirement for. You know, for some light needs and everything. 01:17:43 Anne Aubrey It is. 01:17:44 Timothy Willsmer Is there scenic? Is the idea of a scenic Rd. 01:17:49 Timothy Willsmer Like what say percentage of coverage? 01:17:54 Timothy Willsmer Are you talking about? 01:17:55 Timothy Willsmer Between like I'm assuming it's between the roads and the houses you're looking to create a more natural massage. 01:18:03 Matthew Brenner So the way scenic roads work in broad sense in Massachusetts as you designate. 01:18:11 Matthew Brenner A scenic Rd. 01:18:13 Matthew Brenner Stone walls. 01:18:16 Matthew Brenner Can't be, you know, but don't can't be ruined, broken or anything with that permission. And I'm super paraphrasing here, right? But. And and trees above 6 inches in diameter? Or is it 12? I don't remember. 01:18:34 Richard Harris It says 6 inches. They may meant 6. 01:18:37 Richard Harris Inches in diameter, yes, yeah. 01:18:41 Matthew Brenner And trees greater than 6 inches in diameter may not be cut without permission, so. 01:18:50 Matthew Brenner For example, I live on a scenic Rd. in town. I have no trees in the front of my property. 01:18:57 Matthew Brenner Because it was that way well before seen with roads and for a very long time mostly. 01:19:03 Matthew Brenner I'm. I'm not. I'm not required to do anything. If I had trees greater than the appropriate diameter, I would need to get perm ission. 01:19:13 Matthew Brenner To fill them right. Unitary may come through. 01:19:19 Matthew Brenner Or do whatever the help they want, regardless of the scenic route, is my understanding be. 01:19:26 Matthew Brenner I I want to agree with that head shake now and I've been told otherwise, but. 01:19:32 Matthew Brenner I don't know for. 01:19:33 Matthew Brenner Sure. Do you? 01:19:35 Richard Harris We haven't seen drove by a lot. You can. 01:19:38 Richard Harris Unfortunately I'm not. I've worked in another town that in fact the. 01:19:39 Amanda Reid OK. 01:19:46 Richard Harris Let's until it was air source. 01:19:51 Richard Harris They had stopped the work. 01:19:54 Richard Harris And get approval for removal receive trees. 01:19:57 Richard Harris And go through the same public hearing process. 01:20:00 Matt Allison ===PAGE 21=== So most recently they had to do that on Leominster Rd. when they connected Lancaster to Leominster via Kilbourne. 01:20:07 Matt Allison Or Goodrich and Kilbourne, they Unitil had to prepare for the scenic Rd. hearing. 01:20:14 Matt Allison The proposed cutting in the center of town became a large ordeal. The select board got involved in the scenic Rd. deliberations as well, so unitil is most definitely held accountable. 01:20:27 Speaker 7 Right. 01:20:29 Richard Harris And it's better if you have local syndrome biology. 01:20:36 Richard Harris All right. And and part of this is because generally trees that are. 01:20:43 Richard Harris And your jurisdiction in the same Rd. also going to be public shade trees. 01:20:48 Richard Harris And therefore in Chapter 8. 01:20:49 Richard Harris Seven Tree Warden has jurisdiction as well. 01:21:00 Matthew Brenner So bring our thoughts back to. 01:21:04 Matthew Brenner Fixing the fat tree trees were cut. 01:21:08 Matthew Brenner What is would you like to make a motion here, and if so, what would that motion like to be? Or do we have more discussion? 01:21:16 Matthew Brenner About this scenario I have. 01:21:19 Timothy Willsmer Hopefully one last question. 01:21:28 IT Let's let's assume. 01:21:29 Timothy Willsmer We're not happy with what's happening here and we say. 01:21:34 Timothy Willsmer No, what? 01:21:39 Timothy Willsmer What mechanism does this comes down to? Another question of like enforcement and and how do? 01:21:48 Timothy Willsmer We back these things up. 01:21:49 Timothy Willsmer Like what exactly happens here if we're not happy with? 01:21:55 Timothy Willsmer The distribution of the setup or. 01:21:58 Timothy Willsmer And give this. 01:22:04 Timothy Willsmer I'm just trying to understand what a A I or nay vote means at this point. 01:22:14 Matthew Brenner I I have my layman's understanding but. 01:22:16 Matthew Brenner I would turn to Mr. Harris as our expert. 01:22:20 Richard Harris The tree warden has the strongest hand of all. 01:22:23 IT OK. 01:22:24 Richard Harris And the true ones already said. 01:22:28 Richard Harris 6 trees. 01:22:29 Richard Harris As opposed. 01:22:31 Amanda Reid OK. 01:22:32 Timothy Willsmer If if the tree warden is the expert, and the determiner if the standard, I think there's much else for us to do at this point other than look forward to what we can. 01:22:44 Timothy Willsmer ===PAGE 22=== Adjust or or make. 01:22:46 Timothy Willsmer The same model. 01:22:47 Richard Harris And the reason I say 3 wouldn't as strong as hands goes, they're public shade trees. They're taking down relation to Act 87, which is in 3187. It's in three one jurisdiction. 01:22:47 Timothy Willsmer In the future. 01:23:01 Richard Harris And therefore he would have that that control. 01:23:03 Amanda Reid Thank you. Thank you all. 01:23:06 Timothy Willsmer That I'm gonna put forward a motion to accept the. 01:23:12 Timothy Willsmer Plan for repopulating the trees as given. 01:23:18 Amanda Reid I think. 01:23:19 Matthew Brenner Only include some of the specifics in there, including the. I would recommend we might do that along with minimum height or anything else we deem appropriate. 01:23:31 Speaker 6 And the date. 01:23:33 Timothy Willsmer Ohh, are these not all? 01:23:34 Timothy Willsmer OK, sorry I assumed this was. 01:23:36 Timothy Willsmer All already registered in the plan. 01:23:40 Timothy Willsmer It's just with all of our standard special conditions. 01:23:43 Matthew Brenner So those will apply here. I think we want to specify a date. We want the trees. 01:23:48 Matthew Brenner In by. 01:23:49 IT Oh, sure. 01:23:49 Matthew Brenner We would want to specify a minimum height, OK. 01:23:59 Timothy Willsmer Do we have recommendations on what these should be? Because if I gave you any numbers, I'm just. 01:24:06 Matthew Brenner Minimum 6 feet seem to be. 01:24:09 Richard Harris Do we have something that Adam or three warden said that they wanted? 01:24:16 Matthew Brenner About minimum height. 01:24:18 Matthew Brenner Or or no, and that was not in in my. 01:24:22 Matthew Brenner Conversation with Mr. Bertie that also was not reflected. 01:24:33 Timothy Willsmer Do we have a general? 01:24:34 Richard Harris The place is saplings at that point anyway. 01:24:38 Timothy Willsmer If we're saying, I assume the assumption is that these things have to be planted spring, do we have something that we would consider like a cut off date or a done by just like the spring solstice? 01:24:53 Matthew Brenner That is somewhat species dependent as well, so I. 01:24:58 Matthew Brenner There is certainly an ideal way. 01:25:01 Matthew Brenner But that can even shift a little bit depending on local weather conditions at the time so. 01:25:08 Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 23=== I mean, but by the same token, it's in the homeowners best interest in that plant. Trees that are going to look overly and be stunted for very long. So I'm not as worried about that myself. 01:25:23 Anne Aubrey It was noted in correspondence of planting April 2024. 01:25:29 Matthew Brenner I'm I'm comfortable with that because I would normally when I've looked at fruit trees, I. 01:25:34 Matthew Brenner Would want them in the ground by then. 01:25:37 Richard Harris So I think the drop dead date would be June 30th, but earlier early as possible. 01:25:45 Amanda Reid OK. 01:25:46 Matt Allison Are they to be evenly spaced or clustered or? 01:25:48 IT Thank you. 01:25:50 Timothy Willsmer So motion to accept the plans as given for the six flamethrower red bud trees. 01:25:56 Timothy Willsmer With a minimum height. 01:25:59 Matthew Brenner Of 6 foot on planting. 01:26:01 Timothy Willsmer And a plant by date of. 01:26:04 Timothy Willsmer April 2024. 01:26:06 Richard Harris Nothing, Mr. Allison. 01:26:07 Richard Harris Have a good point as well. 01:26:10 Matthew Brenner Dallas. Oh, I'm sorry. Just. 01:26:10 Richard Harris That may be regularly spaced. 01:26:14 Timothy Willsmer Making sure that they're correctly needed, regularly spaced. 01:26:18 Matthew Brenner Could we say roughly regularly spaced because I both don't want to hold the applicant to a precise measurement and frankly, t here may be a more aesthetic option with. 01:26:29 Amanda Reid Yeah, and. 01:26:32 Timothy Willsmer With roughly regular space. 01:26:37 Amanda Reid All right. 01:26:37 Timothy Willsmer Hopefully disjointedly that all counts. 01:26:42 Speaker 6 I'll second. 01:26:44 Amanda Reid All right. 01:26:45 Matthew Brenner Moved and seconded. 01:26:48 Matthew Brenner All in favor? Aye, aye. All opposed, aye. 01:26:54 Amanda Reid All right. 01:26:57 Matthew Brenner Is so. 01:26:59 Matthew Brenner That does meet the criteria for. 01:27:01 Matthew Brenner It because we I don't. 01:27:03 Matthew Brenner I believe it's a simple majority. 01:27:05 Amanda Reid ===PAGE 24=== Yes, all right. 01:27:07 Matthew Brenner Then we have a plan. 01:27:10 Speaker 7 On this one. 01:27:11 Richard Harris We'll draft a decision, get written up and send it. 01:27:15 Speaker 5 Thank you. 01:27:16 Amanda Reid Great. Thank you. 01:27:23 Matthew Brenner And you may see you. 01:27:25 Matthew Brenner May and my. 01:27:26 Matthew Brenner Opinions have changed about what we may want to look at for next by laws for reasons, and yours may or may not, because that' s on our agenda. 01:27:38 Richard Harris Yes. Hey there. 01:27:43 Matthew Brenner I mean, in theory we could start recording us at any. 01:27:44 Matthew Brenner Time but. 01:27:45 Amanda Reid No, I think they're gone. 01:27:48 Anne Aubrey Yes, I think the left. Hello. 01:27:48 Amanda Reid I think so. Yeah. OK. 01:27:52 Matt Allison My glasses on, but he was making a motion. 01:27:54 Speaker 6 Yeah, he said. Thank you. And finally. 01:27:56 Amanda Reid Yeah. OK. All right. Great that. 01:28:02 Matthew Brenner That ends our public hearings for the night. 01:28:06 Matthew Brenner And now on to discussion and consideration and 1st discussion for regarding site work at 711 Massachusetts Ave. 01:28:26 Matthew Brenner Give me one second, please. I just want to check should I give the a quick do we have the thing come up? Do we save some more fridge? 01:28:36 Richard Harris I think you can give a quick overview that there is a second visit. 01:28:39 Matt Allison Yep. And then also this is the discussion consideration by the Planning board. You're not obligated to take public. 01:28:47 Amanda Reid Comment. Yeah, but we we are not OK just yes. 01:28:50 Matt Allison Being clear. 01:28:53 Matthew Brenner Generally speaking, I I prefer to get public comment, but no, you are correct that there is a. 01:29:01 Matthew Brenner We were also allowed to just sit here and discuss and make a decision. 01:29:05 Richard Harris As well and I have asked the applicant be here so they can present their plan for. 01:29:10 Matthew Brenner Yes, so. 01:29:18 Matthew Brenner So on Monday, December 11th, members, employees of the town. 01:29:27 Matthew Brenner Went to a site visit. 01:29:30 Amanda Reid Yeah, there's. 01:29:32 Matthew Brenner Thank you. Wrong date, looking at the. ===PAGE 25=== 01:29:33 Amanda Reid Wrong thing. 01:29:35 Matthew Brenner November 29th. Thank you, members. 01:29:40 Matthew Brenner Mr. Brown gringos, our building Commissioner, Miss Annagry, our language Department, administrative assistant, and Miss Sophie Doro. I hope I pronounced her last name correctly. Our conservation administrator went on a site visit to 711 Mass Ave. 01:30:00 Matthew Brenner As part of standard procedure. 01:30:01 Matthew Brenner Here and. 01:30:05 Matthew Brenner They felt when they got there that things were not in line with plans as they have been put forward. 01:30:14 Matthew Brenner We received, so I did link us earlier as well in an e -mail just to call our. 01:30:20 Matthew Brenner Attention to it. 01:30:22 Matthew Brenner Kind of a summary of the site visit. 01:30:25 Matthew Brenner And we do have the. 01:30:29 Amanda Reid Or the owner. 01:30:32 Matthew Brenner Or yes, the owner here as well to explain. 01:30:37 Matthew Brenner Basically what's going on and how and his proposal for setting things correctly. There's concerns about wetlands and the town employees expressed concerns about wetlands encroachment as well as I believe, the. 01:30:56 Matthew Brenner Exit or the the construction entrance for the property not being at the location specified on the plants. 01:31:05 Matthew Brenner Yeah. And maybe even Nathan Key out there. 01:31:08 Richard Harris I think that's a nice succinct summary oven. 01:31:12 Matt Allison Well, I'd I'd like to add it is access through an adjacent lot. Is that an appropriate thing to mention here? I mean, because that was in the discourse. 01:31:21 Richard Harris Yeah, that, that's that's part of it and. 01:31:25 Richard Harris He will go through why they did then. 01:31:29 Richard Harris And what? And that they're they're going back to the original plan. 01:31:34 Matt Allison OK. And just also for clarification, the Conservation Commission has already issued A cease and desist on this. Is that true? 01:31:40 Richard Harris The Conservation Ministry issued, cease and assist and the Conservation Commission has not issued an enforcement board and the different. T he key difference there is a cease and desist stops everything and enforcing order allows the developer to remedy. 01:31:47 Amanda Reid OK. 01:32:00 Speaker 6 I just had a quick question. For clarity, this is the White House at the corner. 01:32:05 Matt Allison This is the four duplexes after that house. 01:32:08 Speaker 6 Got you. OK. 01:32:09 Speaker 8 So the White House is adjacent to. 01:32:10 Speaker 8 The side there's. 01:32:11 Amanda Reid OK, yes. Now I know what we're talking about. 01:32:14 Speaker 8 Stefan McSweeney, representative, I am the owner of southern London at Massachusetts. 01:32:19 Speaker 8 Ave. and littleburg. ===PAGE 26=== 01:32:21 Speaker 8 So I'm happy to address any questions. I'll specifically address those too, but we can go into like specific to the first one. The first one was related to the wetlands, so that was. 01:32:37 Speaker 8 Brought to our attention during the site visit, the site visit that occurred on the 29th. 01:32:41 Speaker 8 Is actually requested. 01:32:42 Speaker 8 By us. This wasn't us trying to hide. 01:32:44 Speaker 8 I think there's been some turnover. Obviously various departments we wanted to make sure everything was on track. So we welcome people to come out. We welcome to see it. We were surprised to hear that and I'll explain why in a moment. So I think the concern is that, well, the origin of the concern is that when we were cutting trees. 01:33:04 Speaker 8 We fell into the weapons, fell over where the silt fence and erosion control would have to go, the triggers pulled out. We thought that we were fully in the buffer. Maybe a little confusion about that. Perhaps that encroached, maybe by less than 10. 01:33:17 Speaker 8 See into the resource area. We are still trying to figure that out. One of the concerns brought up the conservation. 01:33:24 Speaker 8 Was making sure. 01:33:25 Speaker 8 All the flags for the wetlands are in the right place. Some of them have dropped off the trees. That's going to be addressed tomorrow. At that point, we will provide a remediation plan. Hopefully by tomorrow we'll have that done. 01:33:37 Speaker 8 And engaged a welding consultant to come out. She was on site Friday. She was on site again today, so we are taking that seri ously. That all means we expect to have the remediation plan submitted hopefully. 01:33:46 Matt Allison Right there. 01:33:50 Speaker 8 At least reviewed and approved during the meeting on. 01:33:53 Speaker 8 The 20th. 01:33:54 Speaker 8 So that was again the origin of this. The the tree coverage, especially towards from the site along Massachusetts Ave. It got thicker and thicker the closer you get to the road. And so obviously where this occurred? 01:34:08 Speaker 5 It's close to. 01:34:08 Speaker 8 The road. And so the tree fell the wrong way. It was nothing. I wouldn't even say it was a mistake. It was just an accident. And so we're moving it. We thought was the most prudent thing. 01:34:17 Speaker 8 To do again, we will seek to remediate whatever is necessary. 01:34:22 Speaker 8 Addressing that probably pertinent issue for this committee is accessing through the rear. 01:34:28 Speaker 8 Property. So what we propose that it was working and it was a verbal conversation and I want to make sure I say things correctly. So I'm not goi ng to say that he certainly he supported him. I'm not going to say he recommended it. I forget the exact wording but this was discussed and it was. 01:34:48 Speaker 8 I mean the appropriate thing to do by any means we could do it. So at that point, we're still trying to negotiate with the adjacent property owne rs to access the site through his land. 01:34:56 Speaker 8 But because if you know where the where the site is. 01:34:58 Speaker 8 It takes that work quick turn. There's a burn. 01:35:02 Speaker 8 In front of the White House, there's very limited access, excuse me, visibility. That is where the entrance will develop. That is the construction entrance. So when we propose coming in through the back where there would be no interruption, the Massachusetts Ave. traffic congestion. 01:35:16 Speaker 8 Importantly, those safety issues. 01:35:19 Speaker 8 Everybody seemed, though I could tell you it was not. We did not register with me that we required any approval during that conversation. If I had heard that, that means delays, delays to me mean. 01:35:32 Speaker 8 Stretching out the project. 01:35:33 Speaker 8 More expensive. If that didn't register, so I don't think we. ===PAGE 27=== 01:35:36 Speaker 8 Discussed that at all. 01:35:38 Speaker 8 We were surprised to hear there's any concern during the site visit because we thought it had been the accepted as soon as we heard that we shut down at this point going forward, we would no longer use that back entrance conform to the plan. 01:35:41 IT Would have. 01:35:51 Speaker 8 I think there was one other. 01:35:52 Speaker 8 Issue that we don't have to get into. 01:35:55 Speaker 8 But we requested Relief Fund and putting the storm sector in place. That was part of the approved stormwater permit we had or iginally requested. We could wait till after the foundations were. 01:36:06 Speaker 8 In so the. 01:36:06 Speaker 8 Damage wasn't done to the storm scepter. It's very. 01:36:08 Speaker 8 Tight sight very likely. 01:36:09 Speaker 8 To happen again. 01:36:11 Speaker 8 The preferences to conform to what was. 01:36:13 Speaker 8 Approved. Done so. 01:36:15 Speaker 8 You'll have that installed in the next week or two. We see no reason. 01:36:18 Speaker 8 For that not to be done. 01:36:19 Speaker 8 According to the way. 01:36:20 Speaker 8 It was stated so before we issue. 01:36:22 Timothy Willsmer Or before we request that you had a. 01:36:24 Speaker 8 Building permit that. 01:36:25 Amanda Reid Would be in. 01:36:26 Speaker 8 Place so at this point I think we. 01:36:28 Speaker 8 We're taking this very seriously. We're trying to get cease and desist. We think it's a very aggressive move. We strongly bel ieve it should have been an enforcement order again, that three things were noted. Two of them are have done by tomorrow, the third one. If I could do it by. 01:36:43 Speaker 8 Tomorrow I would. 01:36:44 Speaker 8 Unfortunately, has a way to the meeting on the 20th. 01:36:46 Speaker 8 To see if it's. 01:36:48 Speaker 8 Our goal is to get this project back on track as quickly. 01:36:50 Amanda Reid We can so like the. 01:36:53 Speaker 8 Recommendation, Mr. Harris. 01:36:55 Speaker 8 Here I am happy to discuss and answer any other questions. 01:36:59 Richard Harris I think like you said. 01:37:01 Richard Harris The worst case scenario for. 01:37:03 Richard Harris Everybody is the side be left the way it is. 01:37:07 Richard Harris ===PAGE 28=== I think everybody agree the best thing is. 01:37:10 Richard Harris To get the stormwater system in and get the encroachments remediated. 01:37:17 Richard Harris And get the project finished because This site is a finished site because it's stabilized, it's. 01:37:23 Richard Harris Is best. So that's that's one that I want Mr. Sweeney here because I think it's important for everybody, at least be on the same page as to what expectations are. 01:37:35 Richard Harris For everybody involved and. 01:37:40 Richard Harris And be sure. 01:37:42 Richard Harris The board hears directly from the developer as to what they're proposing to. 01:37:51 Matthew Brenner All right. 01:37:57 Matthew Brenner Calling up my notes again. 01:38:00 Matthew Brenner We have the reports from the building Commissioner and the conservation agent. 01:38:11 Matthew Brenner We have Mr. Mick sweeneys. 01:38:14 Matthew Brenner Explanation of what's happened of what is being done to. 01:38:21 Matthew Brenner To fix the issues that are directly impact that are directly controlled by us, we. 01:38:34 Matthew Brenner As a board have the ability to request the building Commissioner to issue a stop work order or a limited work on. 01:38:44 Matthew Brenner Order in the limited work order would be. 01:38:48 Matthew Brenner Effectively and correct me if I'm misspeaking to be able to say XY and Z must be accomplished before if the billing Commissio ner did that XYZ must be accomplished for work to proceed is that? 01:39:03 Richard Harris The A stop recorder would stop everything which is not been the lender. Recorder would give specific guidance as to what needs to be done. 01:39:14 Matt Allison So let me clarify any question. So if conservation is issued A cease and desist, then they haven't issued an order yet. They still have to wait the cease and desist is in effect until the next conservation meeting. 01:39:25 Richard Harris Yes, until the Conservation Commission. 01:39:28 Matt Allison Lifts it. OK, so at minimum until the next. 01:39:30 Richard Harris And and tick growth you see is a ceasing cyst or immediate stoppage. And then my springs, usually within a couple of days, th e Conservation Commission issue of enforcement order. 01:39:40 Amanda Reid Right. 01:39:40 Richard Harris Then directs the applicant to implement through mediation action. 01:39:46 Matt Allison Now, I don't disagree with what you had said previously about the best. The best course of action would would would not be to let the site sit as is, but that in my mind would be from a conservation perspective. 01:39:58 Matt Allison From the planning Board's perspective, I don't think that makes. I don't think that plays into the discussion. Quite honestly if if the only reason the applicant is here before us tonight is. 01:40:09 Matt Allison Or not using a construction engines and and not completing the storm sector. 01:40:15 Matt Allison Those are the only two. 01:40:16 Matthew Brenner Things there were some other storm water issues as well, if I. 01:40:20 Richard Harris There, there's the wetlands and conservation integrated with storm water. There's almost impossible to separate those completely. Yes, they're they're jurisdictions different from planning board. 01:40:32 Richard Harris But I think it's important to make sure everybody's moving the same direction and the same. ===PAGE 29=== 01:40:39 Richard Harris Trajectory. Otherwise you get people. 01:40:44 Richard Harris Saying but they said this and they said this. 01:40:47 Matt Allison I certainly don't disagree, and that's why I'm making this statement. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think that that we should well, given what I understand and given given the facts and data in front of us, I don't. 01:41:00 Matt Allison Think that. 01:41:01 Matt Allison Us imposing further restrictions would be a necessity in this example. 01:41:06 Richard Harris But but I think it would be important. 01:41:08 Richard Harris To make it. 01:41:08 Richard Harris Clear the board's positions that you don't see the storm work done. 01:41:13 Matt Allison We want things done according to the the plan. 01:41:15 Richard Harris And you will see that then immediately. So you're gonna have problem during. 01:41:16 Amanda Reid Right. 01:41:18 Richard Harris Winter and you, I think you agree. That's what you want to sit down. 01:41:22 Speaker 8 We can put it this week, we can. 01:41:24 Speaker 8 Get back. 01:41:24 Speaker 8 To line, that's fine, it's already on order. It's supposed to. 01:41:28 Speaker 8 Arrive this week, so that's fine. 01:41:29 Matt Allison And then an additional comment on the storm scepter, you're reluctant to put it in was because of. 01:41:34 Matt Allison The potential damage. 01:41:36 Matt Allison Now the storm Scepter is an insert just into a standard manhole. 01:41:39 Matt Allison Is it not? 01:41:40 Speaker 8 You know it's a full separate system. 01:41:42 Matt Allison OK. So I mean storm Scepter, they they make the manhole, but you basically can install the manhole and then put the guts in after the manhole i s installed. Is that true? 01:41:50 Speaker 8 According to the permit that was issued in Stillwater permit that was issued, we need to have the full system. 01:41:54 Amanda Reid Should OK. 01:41:56 Speaker 8 In place or higher. 01:41:57 Matt Allison OK, I was going to try to get. 01:41:58 Matt Allison A little wiggle room. The storms after this. 01:41:59 Richard Harris Yeah. And it's actually texting. My struck me when I read the decision, read the plans. I'm more accustomed to seeing a interim construction storm storm management system. 01:42:00 Matt Allison Four page areas, but. 01:42:15 Richard Harris That then gets converted into the permanent system, but this didn't have that feature. This had the permanent system and. 01:42:23 Matt Allison It's another bylaw. 01:42:25 Timothy Willsmer ===PAGE 30=== Yeah, no is. 01:42:25 Matthew Brenner It is there a bioptic or is that just? 01:42:29 Matthew Brenner The kit cat plans have that step. 01:42:31 Richard Harris Could be more policy issue. 01:42:33 Richard Harris Than than. 01:42:33 Matt Allison Yeah. Yeah. OK. 01:42:34 Matthew Brenner Sure. Because I feel like in the past we have at times. 01:42:40 Matthew Brenner There's been the construction mitigation, but maybe I'm mistaken. The types of thing that was new on the planning board. 01:42:47 Richard Harris Because oftentimes just seeing the construction site, there would be a construction storm drain, strong retention area that m oves as this construction activity moves around and then it. 01:43:00 Richard Harris Gets permanently settled for the final site that wasn't in the plans for. 01:43:06 Richard Harris This project. 01:43:10 Amanda Reid All right. 01:43:12 Matthew Brenner So as you know, if we could suggest that we could have that as a recommendation in the future to be included in plans, OK, so th at. 01:43:21 Matthew Brenner Seeking ahead for how to improve communication. 01:43:23 Richard Harris Or at least. 01:43:24 Richard Harris At a minimum, ask Adkins to explain how they're going to manage storm, our offering construction without. 01:43:31 Richard Harris Impacting the permanent stormwater system all right. 01:43:40 Matthew Brenner We have other. 01:43:43 Matthew Brenner Questions. Thoughts. 01:43:47 Matthew Brenner Now we have the. 01:43:50 Matthew Brenner Ability to make. How how can we align? 01:43:55 Matthew Brenner Whatever we decide here with conservation. 01:44:01 Richard Harris I think the board could they wish to. 01:44:05 Richard Harris Take no action. 01:44:06 Richard Harris The board they. 01:44:07 Richard Harris Wish to could say as a policy you want to see the stormwater system implemented and encourage the resolution of the wetland system so that so the seating system can be lifted and they can proceed to get the work done. 01:44:21 Richard Harris And recognizing that it's important to have the stormwater system in place before the bad weather comes. And I think that because I think that's everybody's number one concern. 01:44:41 Speaker 8 Yeah, it can be a fun name. 01:44:44 Speaker 8 Please, I mean, I do think we got a lot of rain. There's a lot of seeding water. We have the ability to fix that. So we would just like to back to whe re we could have a mediation plan submitted this week. We could have submit. 01:44:55 Speaker 8 It tomorrow my. 01:44:56 Richard Harris Big concern is that you get a 7 freeze. 01:45:02 Richard Harris ===PAGE 31=== Concrete, hard ground and you've got frozen ground that doesn't. Wu Tang Water doesn't manage storm water and then gets snow and then that melts. And then, you know. 01:45:14 Richard Harris What happens then? 01:45:16 Richard Harris That that's my concern. 01:45:18 Matt Allison We'll we'll, Mike, additional concern is that we've got a a cease and desist order on an open construction site that hasn't been stabilized in any manner or fashion aside from the standard erosion and sedimentation control. 01:45:30 Richard Harris And they can't do anything with CSS. 01:45:31 Matt Allison They can't go back. 01:45:32 Matt Allison And stabilize anything right now because they're not. 01:45:34 Matt Allison Allowed to do work on them. 01:45:36 Richard Harris So I would. 01:45:37 Richard Harris Hope that they can. 01:45:39 Richard Harris To get a planned remediation plan into conservation next day or two and. 01:45:45 Richard Harris Conservation, who work with them to implement something quickly. 01:45:53 Matt Allison I have one more. 01:45:53 Matt Allison Comment, But I'll hold off until everybody else's. 01:45:59 Matthew Brenner I think you're getting silver people welcome you. Ever. 01:46:02 Matt Allison Thought OK and and not for nothing I don't. 01:46:05 Matt Allison Know we you. 01:46:06 Matt Allison Requested this site visit with you on site. 01:46:08 Speaker 8 I was, yes, and I did request it. 01:46:09 Matt Allison You were. 01:46:11 Matt Allison In my recollection, and I've talked to two people that were actually on site that day, they said it got a little heated in my understanding and that. 01:46:21 Speaker 5 I'm not. Again, I wasn't there. 01:46:23 Matt Allison OK, but this this group here is all volunteers. 01:46:30 Matt Allison We get a lot of crap in a lot of different directions and we're going out to a site at the request of the applicant. 01:46:39 Matt Allison And I'm sure it wasn't you. I can can can accept that. But to be to be verbally. 01:46:49 Matt Allison To be treated in such a manner, I do not feel is. 01:46:51 Amanda Reid At all appropriate. 01:46:54 Speaker 8 Great. And the person that on our side of it has already been. 01:46:54 Matt Allison OK. 01:46:59 Speaker 8 That's been. 01:47:00 Speaker 8 OK to explain that it's a large site people. 01:47:00 Matt Allison Very good. I just. 01:47:01 Matt Allison ===PAGE 32=== Want I just I I couldn't go. 01:47:04 Speaker 8 We're sort of. 01:47:06 Speaker 8 Everywhere and there was a gentleman that on our side that is working first they were covering. They expressed concern about the building inspector. 01:47:15 Speaker 8 Perhaps not having the authority to talk about sight, but as soon as that went off track immediately it was prevented. So we agree it's not. 01:47:23 Matt Allison OK. Thank you. 01:47:25 Speaker 8 Going to work. 01:47:27 Matthew Brenner That's one thing I have to bring up now. Thank you, Mr. Jackson. Now, so we're here talking as well, but I'm under the impression there. 01:47:36 Matthew Brenner There's some members of the public who I don't know if there's other members of the public who would like. 01:47:40 Matthew Brenner To speak or share thoughts when I'm required to. 01:47:43 Matthew Brenner Get input that I. 01:47:44 Matthew Brenner Would like to. 01:47:46 Matthew Brenner Service or as appropriate, so all the members of the public who have questions or concerns. I'd like to bring up here. 01:47:53 Matthew Brenner OK, seeing none that's that's fine. Just want to make sure that I I like meetings as open as possible. 01:48:06 Matthew Brenner So what would we like to do? We could put in. We could ask the building Commissioner to put in for a limited work order, basi cally to say. 01:48:24 Matthew Brenner Effectively, you've gotta get the stormwater fixed and set. 01:48:29 Matthew Brenner Up and then you have to do whatever corrective action is. 01:48:35 Matthew Brenner Being is being required by the Congo. 01:48:39 Matthew Brenner Before moving forward, and it sounds like that would. 01:48:45 Matthew Brenner Be the plan largely anyway, but that kind of arounds everything to my understanding. So that's one thing we can do and I'm open to other ideas as well. 01:48:59 Richard Harris Or you can just. 01:49:02 Richard Harris We'll just say it's their priority and communicate priority to the Conservation Commission that the stormwater system be. 01:49:09 Richard Harris Installed and that they're they work out a resolution with with them so that these stormwater can be installed. 01:49:21 Richard Harris And size stabilized the. 01:49:27 Timothy Willsmer There's already like. 01:49:31 Timothy Willsmer A planner response in place for what to do about these issues that have been brought up or. 01:49:37 Timothy Willsmer Is that I'm I'm just. 01:49:38 Timothy Willsmer Trying to understand when we talk about specifying a limited work order, I'm assuming that everything that needs to be fixed or addressed is in a list. 01:49:48 Timothy Willsmer And it's got an accompanying like response checklist. 01:49:51 Richard Harris Well, the issue you have is their priority and non priority I think about. 01:49:56 Richard Harris The stormwater and stabilization. 01:49:58 Timothy Willsmer Of the site, sure. 01:50:00 Richard Harris They can't do anything right now. Yeah, those cease and desist. Yeah. So I think it's, it's incoming. Urgent to have. ===PAGE 33=== 01:50:09 Richard Harris That resolution so they can proceed to get the stormwater installed and the site stabilized and then before they proceed in construction, they ge t the mitigation that they work out with Conservation Commission. 01:50:23 Timothy Willsmer OK. 01:50:26 Amanda Reid OK. 01:50:31 Matthew Brenner If we were asking the building Commissioner to put a limited work order in place. 01:50:37 Matthew Brenner Do we need to be as specific as we are when we pass decisions, or are we asking the building Commissioner to do this and then he handles the details? 01:50:46 Richard Harris I would give them. 01:50:47 Richard Harris Guidance as to what your priorities are. 01:50:49 Matthew Brenner But we can give guidance. We don't have to be. 01:50:52 Richard Harris No, that that you're the 4th priority is to have the stormwater system installed. The site stabilized and the conservation im mediate. 01:51:05 Timothy Willsmer At this point, are we we're issuing a recommendation at this point, right? We'd be motion for recommendation. 01:51:12 Richard Harris The building Commissioner, yeah. 01:51:16 Richard Harris If you want to do. 01:51:17 Richard Harris That sure. 01:51:17 Speaker 8 Can I ask a question? No, I'm hearing this and I understand I understand a bit of it, but if. 01:51:19 Matthew Brenner Please please. 01:51:23 Speaker 8 I'm hearing this correctly. 01:51:25 Speaker 8 The issue is that there needs to be an additional piece of paper filed. 01:51:30 Speaker 8 So that we correct the conservation issue which we already have something of that and to install the storm stuff here, which is already paid for, was being delivered this week. Clearly we intended to do it. The only question we had is did we have to do it in this order? A simple yes would have sufficed. 01:51:47 Speaker 8 We didn't need. 01:51:48 Speaker 8 To get to this point, I certainly don't. 01:51:51 Speaker 8 If that's the requirement that apply to it and I don't need, I don't understand that. I guess the necessity for. 01:51:58 Speaker 8 Additional paperwork or filing about that. 01:52:05 Matthew Brenner My thoughts on it I I can't speak for the whole board here. I I would share my thoughts. You were before us now you seem. 01:52:12 Matthew Brenner Like a very. 01:52:14 Matthew Brenner Reasonable person. And when this was when the project was brought for us in front of us before us, and like a very reasonable . 01:52:25 Matthew Brenner That said. 01:52:28 Matthew Brenner And I hear. 01:52:29 Matthew Brenner How it seems while it's got crossed, but because wires got crossed, that makes me hesitant to just say. 01:52:41 Matthew Brenner Ohh, it's cool. We're all on the same page now. I would write. I would personally, I think and I could be talked out of it. 01:52:49 Matthew Brenner But I think I would be more comfortable with it being codified and then having the building Commissioner whose job it is to l ook. 01:52:59 Matthew Brenner This is happening the way supposed to. Everything's good. What I don't want to do is put a whole bunch of extra hurdles. ===PAGE 34=== 01:53:07 Amanda Reid In your way. 01:53:09 Matthew Brenner That's not what I'm looking to do myself, but I do want to have some checks in place to make sure everything is progressing as we all expect, so that there isn't an issue with a, a miscommunication or misunderstanding or anything like that. Again, that's by the way, I c an't speak. 01:53:29 Matthew Brenner For the rest of the board. 01:53:31 Matthew Brenner That's my feelings on it. 01:53:33 Richard Harris It's like to talk about earlier leaving making. 01:53:36 Richard Harris Clear paper trail. 01:53:39 IT Of what? 01:53:41 Richard Harris Is to be done and when some be done. 01:53:44 Matt Allison So just for further clarity, I want to mention there's two references to our bylaw, and both of them are stormwater. One of them's 2O4-1N1 and the other one is P1. So. 01:53:57 Matt Allison Then one is enforcement and P is orders. 01:54:02 Matt Allison Now just to just to repeat, my understanding is the Storm Scepter location prior to? 01:54:10 Matt Allison Building and then the construction entrance are the two planning board issues separate from stormwater and general? Is that c orrect? 01:54:20 Richard Harris Those are engraved into the stormwater 7th. 01:54:24 Richard Harris Control version control. 01:54:25 Matt Allison Sure, sure. OK. 01:54:28 Matt Allison And I don't think that either one of those can be addressed until the issue is relieved, relieved through conservation. So what I might suggest is that we. 01:54:39 Matt Allison Put a letter together indicating our inclination towards getting it done. The way the plan was presented and in in an environ mentally friendly manner, and that I think my personal thought is that if the Conservation Commission is satisfied that this board would be as well. 01:55:00 Matt Allison Given that we ask the building official to just simply once the site work is commenced to go out and confirm that the first things done were the storm scepter and the construction entrance, that would be my recommend. 01:55:15 Richard Harris And and they would use it kind of same thing in terms of documenting. 01:55:21 Matthew Brenner Yeah, I'm. I'm equally comfortable with. I am comfortable with whatever gets us moving forward correctly verifying. 01:55:21 Amanda Reid The path forward. 01:55:31 Matthew Brenner So that there's no issue. 01:55:32 Matthew Brenner So I'm comfortable either way. 01:55:35 Matthew Brenner If a woman worker ever places undue burden, or simply just. 01:55:40 Matthew Brenner Feels aggressive. I get that too. I'm not, but I want to make sure that everything is moving forward correctly and that we're. I would like to see us make sure that we in common F1 are aligned going forward so that all of us are on the same page. 01:55:59 Matt Allison Well, as was previously mentioned, it doesn't get much more aggressive than a cease and desist. 01:56:05 Matt Allison It's been. 01:56:08 Matthew Brenner Having been in. 01:56:11 Matthew Brenner Having been some of those meetings, I. 01:56:15 Matthew Brenner I I do, I think I. ===PAGE 35=== 01:56:17 Matthew Brenner Understand where the season desist is coming from. I also understand why it feels aggressive. 01:56:27 Matthew Brenner I I hope. 01:56:29 Matthew Brenner Since you were concerned about the wetlands issues and everything else and. 01:56:35 Matthew Brenner All right. Other thoughts from the board on this. 01:56:42 Amanda Reid All right. 01:56:45 Matthew Brenner So we've talked in Mr. Allison, you suggested putting together a letter to XYZ. 01:56:53 Matt Allison The enforcement is already been undertaken as far as I'm concerned, for the wetlands for the. 01:57:00 Matt Allison By the by the conservation, now the orders. I don't think we need to actually have an order. I think just a simple letter to the building Commissioner indicating our preference. 01:57:10 Richard Harris Then the letter to the building Commissioner, the copy the conservation administrator. 01:57:16 Richard Harris Which would then put boarding record as supporting Conservation Commission. What they're doing and also encouraging them to d o expeditions, resolution and. 01:57:27 Matthew Brenner This is. Is this something we can request? 01:57:31 Matthew Brenner As a general thing, and that I'm just, we don't need again for. 01:57:37 Richard Harris I think that the board could take make a motion to authorize the chair to sign. 01:57:42 Richard Harris A letter to. 01:57:43 Richard Harris Commission Conservation administrator regarding discussion night and I could draft it up. Sent up to Annie and you and. 01:57:55 Matt Allison So moved that work, does that does that work? That was a question that you OK? 01:58:03 Matt Allison The chair and. 01:58:03 Matthew Brenner Yeah, well, I'm. I'm comfortable with that. 01:58:06 Matthew Brenner My concern is making sure whatever we do is legal and correct, yeah. 01:58:10 Anne Aubrey Constitute a limited work order of no. No then. 01:58:16 Matthew Brenner But it is making it is making the boards desire known to. 01:58:20 Matthew Brenner The building commissioner. 01:58:22 Matthew Brenner And then all right, moved, moved and seconded. 01:58:32 Matthew Brenner Yeah. All in favor, aye. 01:58:36 Amanda Reid Right. 01:58:38 Richard Harris Very good. I'll drop something up in the next. 01:58:40 Matthew Brenner Day or two. OK. Thank you. Thank and thank you, miss. Miss Sweeney, for joining us tonight. All right, so I'll get those check marks in there. We've done all that. And. 01:58:57 Amanda Reid We are. 01:59:03 Matthew Brenner So we do have members of the public here. I'm guessing you were here just. 01:59:06 Matthew Brenner For the last thing, but. 01:59:09 Matthew Brenner Much of our agenda can be taken. 01:59:10 Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 36=== To any order at this point. If you hear for. 01:59:12 Matthew Brenner Anything else tonight I could. OK. 01:59:15 IT Thank you very. 01:59:15 Matthew Brenner Much thank you. Yes, all right. So we're on to board discussions. 01:59:29 Matthew Brenner Potential and these, I think, will leave some of those will be short, there's three. 01:59:35 Speaker 7 Potential future. 01:59:36 Matthew Brenner Bylaw updates. 01:59:37 Timothy Willsmer Are we going full on for scenic bylaw? 01:59:41 Matthew Brenner Well, I was serious, but we talked about last time we talked about. Let's look at solar then signs and Mr. Harris recommended that signed by Law 4 spring. 01:59:56 Matthew Brenner Could shell robbery be described as aggressive, whereas scenic roads could potentially be easier? 02:00:06 Matthew Brenner So I didn't know if we wanted to look at. So we've been seeing the clouds or ceiling clouds then solar and that would direct some of my work as well kind of overall month long break to gather some info on everything for us. But I want to turn to us and see what we think or we can keep on that path. But I wanted to ask us rather than making assumptions. 02:00:26 Timothy Willsmer Personally, I'd rather go scenic Rd. first, but I've been thinking on this for a while so. 02:00:34 Speaker 6 I would agree. Scenic Rd. and then solar would be my view, especially after this evening's agenda. 02:00:46 Matthew Brenner Yes. Yeah. This was specifically about in addition to that, which is for the spring regardless. 02:00:57 Matthew Brenner I was hesitant before to look at scenic roads with master plan on the horizon, but realistically Mr. Harris pointed out that we can make a good signal flow bylaw and then with the master plan it then becomes. 02:01:16 Matthew Brenner The master plan would help us look at what roads will be added to that in the future, so then it's not drafting another ceili ng. Floor bylaw is saying. Let's make these roads. 02:01:27 Richard Harris It's kind of like a zoning bylaw. You talk to bylaw and then you had a zoning map and then you amend the map your time, time or wetlands byl aw, where you have wetlands by law and you have wetland areas, you have run parallels and you have time, time, you a dd rental pool pools will change the net, the status of it. 02:01:46 Richard Harris Chick. What then? 02:01:48 Richard Harris Here we go. 02:01:49 Richard Harris I I'm getting the same type of line. 02:01:53 Matt Allison So I'll mention the the ability for us to form subcommittees within the membership. There is the potential to have two two Member subcommittees to each focus on an individual bylaw, and then independently beyond these meetings, so we can meet together out side. 02:02:14 Matt Allison And then report. 02:02:15 Matt Allison Back to the. 02:02:16 Matt Allison Group with with findings so in in that way, given the opportunity, if we had two people that felt strongly about one thing and two people that felt strongly about another thing that would give the opportunity for the people who feel strongly about it to to dive in and get their hands completely dirty. 02:02:34 Matt Allison And then bring the dirt back to this group and we can stick through it. 02:02:37 Matthew Brenner And because and because they're true person subcommittees, they don't need to have. 02:02:43 Matthew Brenner The work sessions don't have to be public meetings with that. 02:02:47 Matt Allison My understanding. 02:02:48 Matt Allison ===PAGE 37=== Richard can. 02:02:48 Richard Harris That's my understanding as well. 02:02:52 Richard Harris There's some that complete that I it pins that. 02:02:56 Richard Harris Structure, but yes. 02:02:58 Amanda Reid OK. 02:02:58 Matt Allison And I'll tell you that Lunenburg does believe in that because Mr. Jeffries and I share a subcommittee position, just the two of us on the municipal building design committee that we. 02:03:09 Matt Allison Voted for last month, they think two months ago. 02:03:13 Matt Allison Great. So that's an option given that you know some people feel strongly about something and not so strongly about another thing that would give them the opportunity to do homework that was effective and collaborative at the table. 02:03:27 Matthew Brenner That sounds banger to me. 02:03:30 Matthew Brenner Banger being a technical planning term. 02:03:32 Matthew Brenner Sure. Are people interested in looking at? 02:03:40 Matthew Brenner Looking at doing some initial info gathering and light drafting for our scenic roads or solar. 02:03:51 Timothy Willsmer Interested in digging into? 02:03:54 Timothy Willsmer Honestly either, but I prefer scenic Rd. I like. 02:04:03 Matthew Brenner Them both so. 02:04:04 Matthew Brenner I I could be very happy playing with you. 02:04:07 Amanda Reid I'm flexible, I. 02:04:08 Amanda Reid Could do it either there. 02:04:08 Matthew Brenner You go, Mr. Allison. Would you have a preference? 02:04:11 Matt Allison And of course I have to be the jerk who throws in another topic, and I'm going to bring this up. I wasn't going to mention it this meeting, but I think it might be important. I'm not sure who was aware, but the 40B application that's before the town. 02:04:27 Matt Allison Has has had a summary judgment issued just before November. 02:04:32 Matthew Brenner I was going to go into that when we got to that section, but we can mention it now if especially if it gives context to this. 02:04:37 Matt Allison Anyways, yeah it it does. 02:04:39 Matt Allison The the context to it is that we have 40 yard zoning in town, which is equivalent to a 40B, but it's done by. 02:04:45 Matt Allison The town, in a very rough nutshell. 02:04:49 Matt Allison Tri Town, driving that were approved for 204 units. I believe that build out is complete. 02:04:54 Matt Allison Therefore, the existing bylaw that we have two. 02:04:57 Matt Allison 54.11. 02:04:59 Matt Allison Is run its course in my understanding, because that was entirely created to oversee the development of that Triton parcel, which was just unde r 9 acres I believe. 02:05:12 Matt Allison Now, through the 40 R process, we were able to design that, get an RFP, put it out. 02:05:16 Matt Allison To bid. 02:05:18 Matt Allison ===PAGE 38=== We got 40 S money back for inhabitants. Occupancy of the units. 02:05:24 Matt Allison A very similar thing could be rescheduled for another property and that would. 02:05:31 Matt Allison That would that would be a fairly into by law I believe, but timing, timing, timing is is of the essence in. 02:05:42 Matt Allison I've never had such good tasting crow, but I was. I was. I was convinced that project was going to happen and. 02:05:51 Matt Allison And it's not. 02:05:54 Richard Harris 40 yards are very challenging. 02:05:59 Matthew Brenner I'm not opposed to the idea. In general, I don't know with a with Mr. Harris, who is extremely talented, but we have limited hours with and the extra that that's kind of my thought on it is. 02:06:18 Matthew Brenner I don't know that the amount of pull that would be needed by us around with Mr. Harris might work well in this scenario right now. 02:06:26 Matt Allison Completely understand what you're going at. Yeah, and. 02:06:29 Matthew Brenner Don't disagree. Please. Please. 02:06:29 Richard Harris I can make a suggestion, I I don't disagree with Mr. Anderson suggests that 40 off that I wouldn't suggest. 02:06:37 Richard Harris Pushing for May 2024, I think the time frame for doing the for your because not only do you have to identify the area, qualify under state rules and regulations, but then you have to get the bylaw drafted approved by the state. 02:06:59 Richard Harris Go through public hearing process, then go through. 02:07:02 Richard Harris Town meeting, I think. More realistically, you're looking at a. 02:07:05 Richard Harris One year process as opposed to. 02:07:09 Amanda Reid Five week process, I concur. 02:07:10 Matt Allison OK. 02:07:13 Matt Allison I just. I would, I would have felt remiss if I. 02:07:15 Matt Allison Hadn't brought it. 02:07:15 Matthew Brenner Up I have very similar thoughts for the same reasons we can get into more details, but the short answer is Palm view comments . 02:07:16 Matt Allison That was all. 02:07:32 Matthew Brenner Like isn't happening as specified unless at least not unless there's a lot of court battle. First, they've had serious roadbl ock. So. 02:07:41 Matt Allison Serious roadblock. 02:07:48 Richard Harris I want this I. 02:07:48 Richard Harris Want to disagree with that assessment? 02:07:50 Richard Harris I wouldn't say it's dead. That's got a. 02:07:52 Matt Allison Serious robot. There we go. 02:07:58 Matthew Brenner Yep. All right. So. 02:08:01 Speaker 7 Who wants to work on science? Who wants to work on solar? 02:08:06 Matthew Brenner Not signs my dad's scenic. I was looking at the wrong line of my notes. 02:08:11 Matthew Brenner You said you were a that you kind of see the clothes, right? 02:08:19 Matthew Brenner Mr. Allison, we can give a preference. 02:08:20 Matt Allison ===PAGE 39=== Well, you know what I think that would be somewhat appropriate, since he and I both live on scenic roads. 02:08:26 Matt Allison Right. Yeah. Yeah, it might. Or it may not be appropriate. However, you may choose to. 02:08:32 Matt Allison Look at it well. 02:08:35 Matthew Brenner I mean, I love our city. There's only. 02:08:37 Matthew Brenner So much I. 02:08:37 Matthew Brenner Mean and you've. 02:08:38 Matt Allison Been, yeah. 02:08:41 Speaker 6 I'm a continuation of a scenic growth. 02:08:43 Matthew Brenner Is the best. 02:08:43 Richard Harris It's a long hearing is Tim and Mr. Allison on single roads and Mr. Brenner and Amanda on so. 02:08:52 Matthew Brenner I'm very comfortable with. 02:08:53 Amanda Reid That that. 02:08:53 Matt Allison And that's so that's only if we want to do go to the subcommittee Route 2, which. 02:08:57 Matt Allison I was just a suggestion. 02:08:58 Matthew Brenner I think we, yeah, there is. 02:09:02 Timothy Willsmer It was a sensible enough suggestion that we just kind of adopted it without. 02:09:06 Timothy Willsmer Question. Yeah, yeah. 02:09:09 Matthew Brenner Given the hours I'm putting in right now, I know that Mrs. Brenner has an opinion about your suggestion. She has gun. There you go. There you go. Yeah, that's what I hear about you, Mr. 02:09:21 Matt Allison Everybody's happy. 02:09:24 Matthew Brenner Allison, you make everybody happy. 02:09:26 Matthew Brenner Well, that's the thing about. 02:09:27 Matt Allison Town government is you just can't. 02:09:29 Matt Allison You just can't. 02:09:32 Matthew Brenner All right, great. 02:09:34 Anne Aubrey I don't know. I brought candy back into my office, so. 02:09:38 Matthew Brenner Family makes everybody happy. The rest of us, not so much. 02:09:41 Matthew Brenner OK, great. That is what we don't need to vote to do this. We just have two working groups. 02:09:47 Matthew Brenner Now in that. 02:09:47 Richard Harris I think I think it's a consensus of the board that this. 02:09:50 Matt Allison Right. We're going to do. Yeah, we should. I think memorialize the subcommittees, though, shouldn't we? 02:09:50 Richard Harris Everyone there. 02:09:55 Richard Harris Yeah, I would suggest that it be memorized to the mind. 02:09:59 Speaker 8 OK. ===PAGE 40=== 02:09:59 Richard Harris That I just noted that. 02:10:01 Matt Allison If you think that's appropriate, that's fine by me. 02:10:02 Richard Harris That Tim and yourself are have been volunteered to work on the single by single bylaw, and Amanda and Mr. Burn have volunteered to work on the so. 02:10:16 Matthew Brenner And I will continue some Mr. Harris has is also putting together. 02:10:23 Matthew Brenner Line by line comparison for the water. 02:10:26 Matthew Brenner And we'll make sure we bring that back to us when we have that along with some of the thoughts. 02:10:31 Richard Harris And everything else going to have that for you for your first meeting in. 02:10:34 Richard Harris January. Great. Thank you, Sir. 02:10:37 Richard Harris And also touching on that, I've also had communication with Master P as to. 02:10:44 Richard Harris How can zone 2 overlap zone 1? 02:10:49 Richard Harris I emailed in Victor at the Central Regional Office of Mass DEP, and he referred it to Boston and asked them to respond, and they asked to give me an example. And so I sent them GIS maps of lundbergs wells that overlap. 02:11:09 Richard Harris And I'm waiting to hear back from them as to an explanation. 02:11:12 Matthew Brenner For it. 02:11:14 Matthew Brenner Good news. It is as strange as it seems. 02:11:22 Matthew Brenner All right, great. I have stormwater task force on there. 02:11:30 Matthew Brenner And this is kind of. 02:11:33 Matthew Brenner This is on the topic of we've talked about what's the charge of that group to put together to fund the funding for storm water utility. What is it now? 02:11:44 Matthew Brenner What's going on? Knowing that it's owned not? 02:11:47 IT The the the. 02:11:48 Matthew Brenner Outcome that they owned, I mean like Economic Development Committee is like under the purview of Planning Board. I assume that you're showing me is Stillwater task Force Binder mission statement. 02:12:04 Matthew Brenner The stronger task force is charged with the development of a comprehensive stormwater management plan that complies with state and federal regulations, provides a storm and surface water system that controls damage from storms, protects surface water quali ty and protects the environment. The plan shall determine which local agency or agencies. 02:12:24 Matthew Brenner Will be responsible for implementation. Establish the estimated cost of the program as well as provide for the creation of an ongoing funding source to enable its success. 02:12:38 Matthew Brenner Mr. Reznor, as our representative to stormwater task force, I have never been represented there, so I'm clueless. Does that d escribe what is currently going on? OK. 02:12:52 Timothy Willsmer If you want a description of what? 02:12:54 Matthew Brenner I would love the description that is what I was expecting. The answer today. Yes, if the with the Bills approval, I would lik e to go to the select board. 02:13:09 Matthew Brenner And basically so strong model is an issue. This has come up at at Capital Planning Committee as an ongoing concern. This is come up a plan. The re is an ongoing concern and like at the capital planning. 02:13:28 Matthew Brenner And there's real interest in this. 02:13:31 Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 41=== Can we get this like what can we do and what I don't want to do is go to them and say fix it pumps because that that goes over awfully in every circumstance. But I'd like to turn to them and say what can we do and potentially how can the planning board be part of the solution. 02:13:51 Matthew Brenner To get this moving forward correctly and. 02:13:59 Timothy Willsmer Renee MP has kind of spearheaded getting everything organized. We have this not. 02:14:11 Timothy Willsmer The 28th we are currently looking to be having our next meeting. 02:14:17 Matthew Brenner December 20th. Wow. Bolt. All right. 02:14:18 Timothy Willsmer December 20. 02:14:24 Matthew Brenner All right, so that is great and I look forward to that. Do you feel it would be better for me to? So I was gonna ask the board now the select board and kind of have this discussion. 02:14:40 Matthew Brenner I mean not that I need permission just to talk to select board, but if that's like our unified thought to go there on behalf of the Planning Board, but it would be better if I waited till. 02:14:52 Matthew Brenner After that meeting. 02:14:54 Timothy Willsmer I'd like to give you one last chance. Let him let him see if we can connect with this. 02:15:00 Timothy Willsmer Least once in 2023. 02:15:05 Richard Harris I can ask one question, what's your assessment as to why nothing is? 02:15:13 Richard Harris And there's important. 02:15:15 Timothy Willsmer AB big chunk like July until a month ago, I don't know. 02:15:23 Timothy Willsmer There just never seemed to be any movement and then we had a couple meetings. One, I think we just couldn't get scheduling together for some reason and the other they forgot to post the meeting agenda. 02:15:38 Timothy Willsmer Ahead of time. 02:15:41 Timothy Willsmer Yeah, I don't really have a good answer as to why nothing's happened because. 02:15:44 Timothy Willsmer I'm not quite. 02:15:45 Speaker 6 Sure I did. Stormwater for a year ish and I was very much in the same boat where. 02:15:47 Matthew Brenner You did. That's right. 02:15:56 Speaker 6 The purpose of it wasn't very clear. This is the first time I've seen the mission statement for stormwater, and I did it for a year. So I mean, we would just kind of talk about things and move on. There was no clear cut plan of what we were trying to do. 02:16:14 Speaker 6 So this is very interesting seeing this after the fact, but I if Mr. Willsboro wants you to do, you know, have one meeting, see how that goes and then go to the select board, then I'm cool with that. I'm cool if you go now. 02:16:30 Speaker 6 Because I didn't see any movement when I was. 02:16:32 Timothy Willsmer There seems. 02:16:33 Timothy Willsmer From the e -mail conversations that everybody's a little bit what are? 02:16:37 Timothy Willsmer We supposed to. 02:16:37 Timothy Willsmer Be doing here so I am hopeful that our first meeting is kind of like a hard sit down with like. 02:16:44 Timothy Willsmer Why are we doing this? Why? 02:16:45 Timothy Willsmer Is everybody here? What are we going to do? 02:16:53 Matthew Brenner I hear that I I guess I'm in new I guess where my concern lies is we have a group saying what are we supposed to do when there is a thing we're supposed to be doing. And I know that drift occurs. ===PAGE 42=== 02:17:12 Matthew Brenner I mean, I'm. 02:17:12 Matthew Brenner Fine waiting too. Just there seems to be from the fiscal standpoint and understanding of the necessity of this intent because I can tell you the Capital Planning Committee was looking at it and there are so many requests that are. 02:17:30 Matthew Brenner Engineering because it's not just, I mean, we have compared to many communities aggressive strong level bylaw, but that is in there's so many aspects that it isn't addressing in terms of how we're going to deal with the fact that with these changes. 02:17:49 Matthew Brenner Town system at town systems aren't respond or town systems. Town installations aren't responding the way they once did. 02:17:59 Matthew Brenner Or the responding the way we always did, but went to a volume was unprecedented and that's causing problems for land owners in town that is causing problems for our roadways and other issues and from capital planning standpoint, it's a great. 02:18:19 Matthew Brenner Maybe we can handle one a year. 02:18:21 Matthew Brenner But that's also money that isn't going to fire trucks. 02:18:26 Matthew Brenner Right as an. 02:18:27 Matthew Brenner Arbitrary capital example. 02:18:32 Matt Allison I can continue with the history left. 02:18:35 Matt Allison Please so I'm looking, I think at the minutes of our very first meeting on January 13th of 2016, I was one of the founding members of that group and. 02:18:48 Matt Allison Yeah. And Mrs. Reed was pleasant enough to take my seat from that. So I've been on there since 2016 until Miss Reed joined. 02:18:57 Amanda Reid One yes. 02:18:58 Speaker 7 Was Miss Bertrand about the representative at? 02:19:00 Amanda Reid One point or am I making that up? 02:19:02 Matthew Brenner I might well be making it up. 02:19:04 Matt Allison It's quite possible that there was a little bit of an overlap, but I believe Miss Bertram stepped down. Midterm. Yeah, there could have been a. 02:19:13 Matt Allison Small area where. 02:19:14 Matt Allison I had a little bit of retreat reprieve from going. 02:19:17 Matt Allison To the planning, but. 02:19:17 Matthew Brenner OK, we just try to clarify. 02:19:19 Matthew Brenner My memories, as much as anything else. 02:19:21 Matt Allison But initially it was it was a 7 member board with ex officios. 02:19:27 Matt Allison There was, yeah, seven members and. And we had DPW director, we had the land use director. 02:19:37 Matt Allison At least those two, so that was technically 9, but we had hard time getting quorum and meeting quorum. So we eventually went down to five members. Same thing happened, had hard, hard time keeping quorum, making Quorum went down to three members. So for a couple years it was. 02:19:56 Matt Allison It was a. 02:19:57 Matt Allison Select Board member, a Conservation Commission member and myself. 02:20:00 Matt Allison And that was it. 02:20:02 Matt Allison And every once in a while, with the DPW, director would come in when they needed help on their MS-4 permit. For the year, we ended up hiring CEI consultants, Comprehensive Environmental Inc. I think they did a great job of of getting us in line with our requirements for the the MPDF no for the MS-4. ===PAGE 43=== 02:20:22 Matt Allison From mapping our sewer outfalls and and inputs and and the Daisy chains of Catch Basin to catch Basin to catch Basin, to wetland and and and there's been a lot of good work accomplished by this group and I don't want to undermine any of that. I mean, there 's been a lot. 02:20:38 Matt Allison So valuable, let's say side roads that they've taken. But however I I think that the primary focus does need to be shaken back into the the powers that be and not necessarily just the membership of the group, but also the founding membership. Now with this task by. 02:20:58 Matt Allison Select board or planning board. 02:21:00 Matthew Brenner Which was tasked by select board. That's why I wanted to go to select board because this is. 02:21:07 Matthew Brenner Whatever the technical term is, I don't know. But it's it's there baby right now. 02:21:13 Richard Harris You know, sometimes when committees sit performed after time and there's not some major. 02:21:20 Richard Harris In target. 02:21:23 Richard Harris Like in like development Captain privilege program. 02:21:27 Richard Harris You will see that those committees will. 02:21:31 Richard Harris Start falling apart in terms of attendance, in terms of Quorums and what's oftentimes need to be done is come back and. 02:21:42 Richard Harris Totally reconstitute the committee with. 02:21:47 Richard Harris A a new mission. 02:21:52 Richard Harris The powers above that. 02:21:54 Richard Harris And a specific not just mission but specific target date of when to provide a report, because if if you're getting the if the committee is giving a 24 month. 02:22:10 Richard Harris Time frame or they know they can't just sit around for 36 months they've they've got. 02:22:17 Richard Harris It's more structure they have to do and that's sometimes very helpful. 02:22:23 Matthew Brenner Mr. Harris says basically what some in more eloquent terms with some of my thoughts are in terms of, we seem to have a critical interest. We seem to have a committee that is supposed to be something along these lines. 02:22:43 Matthew Brenner But I'm happy to wait and see. And then, Mr. Rosner, if you can get back to us at the first meeting in January, and if there is as well as, I mean your representative to the committee, but. 02:23:02 Matthew Brenner So we will share what you will, but that there is an interest in the town in doing this. Yeah, but I think it's an interest t hat needs to be. 02:23:11 Matthew Brenner Rather, for there is an interest, but I think is something that needs to be rather fertilized and encouraged before it become s absolute critical mess. All right, that that was really. That was what I wanted from that was to kind of see where we are and I will. 02:23:31 Matthew Brenner Wait on that until we see. 02:23:34 Amanda Reid Where we are excellent. 02:23:37 Anne Aubrey I do have one thing to add to discussion. I don't know if you have one more thing. 02:23:44 Matthew Brenner Farmland action plan but. 02:23:45 Amanda Reid OK. 02:23:49 Matthew Brenner Can we just? 02:23:49 Matthew Brenner Add things on to the board discussions rather. I mean if it wasn't anticipated, I believe that's OK. 02:23:55 Anne Aubrey It was. 02:23:56 Anne Aubrey Brought to my attention. 02:23:58 Anne Aubrey This morning to add to discussion. ===PAGE 44=== 02:24:04 Anne Aubrey By conservation. 02:24:08 Matthew Brenner Go ahead. 02:24:09 Anne Aubrey So I don't know if anyone is familiar with the mass trails grant trail vision, but the. 02:24:19 Anne Aubrey Montachusett Regional Planning Commission sent out an e -mail explaining that mass trails grant program. 02:24:28 Anne Aubrey Administered by the Department of Conservation and Recreation, provides matching grants, technical assistance resources. 02:24:37 Anne Aubrey So basically the project of three phases, year one would be to create trail vision plans for 10 communities Ashburnham, Clinton, Gardner, Hubbardston, Leominster, Lunenburg, Shirley Sterling, Westminster as well as Princeton. 02:24:53 Anne Aubrey Which lies just outside of the MRPC boundary. I'm just reading the e-mail right now. Three of our communities already have trail visions, Groton, Fitchburg, and Lancaster. The second phase, year two would be to establish regional trail vision based on the data gathered for all the individual trail visions, including those that were already completed prior. 02:25:13 Anne Aubrey And the third phase would be to establish a trail marketing plan that promote promote North Central Massachusetts as being a prime trail destination. 02:25:22 Anne Aubrey So their first step is basically to document outlines past current and future trail efforts and how they intertwine with the community itself as region wide, basically building that master plan. So what's being asked of us right now from conservation. 02:25:40 Anne Aubrey Is to contribute a. 02:25:44 Anne Aubrey Equivalent of 8 hours on our GI. 02:25:47 Anne Aubrey Gas basically. And so it was kind of a formal request to ask of the board if we can. 02:25:56 Anne Aubrey Do that for conservation in order to kind of give them the information that they need to contribute to the this. 02:26:06 Matthew Brenner Project. If memory is served, we've given those 8 hours to in the past for the trail work. 02:26:15 Matt Allison Almost every year for five years, it's years every year. 02:26:18 Matthew Brenner So this is less out of the blue than it might seem to to you. 02:26:24 Matthew Brenner To many people, because this is more standard for I was like what is? 02:26:29 Matthew Brenner This that like. 02:26:29 Matthew Brenner We've been doing trail stuff S 7 -8 US, that was. 02:26:33 Matthew Brenner An e-mail. Oh yeah. Oh. 02:26:34 Anne Aubrey OK. Yeah, I know they're they were looking for an answer a couple weeks ago. So that's why I didn't want to delay it until the January. 02:26:43 Anne Aubrey Eating. And so I thought be worth mentioning. 02:26:48 Matthew Brenner Now, is there? This wasn't listed on the agenda formally, but is there any reason we can't make? 02:26:55 Richard Harris A I assume we have language but other things not expected. 02:27:02 Matt Allison Yeah, but discussion not making a vote typically. 02:27:07 Matthew Brenner But this is. 02:27:08 Matt Allison And it's not unlikely. I mean, it's not unheard of and it's not something that we haven't done for times at least. 02:27:13 Matthew Brenner And I don't even know if. 02:27:14 Matthew Brenner It's been on the. 02:27:15 Matthew Brenner Agenda formally, because this isn't a. 02:27:18 Matt Allison ===PAGE 45=== So I think it's been under directors. 02:27:19 Matt Allison Items in the palace. 02:27:20 Matthew Brenner Has it been because this isn't a? This is just? Are we giving them part of the resource we have? This isn't a. 02:27:28 Matthew Brenner I don't know if that matters or not. 02:27:30 Matt Allison Well, it does. I mean, if it's given to us, it's for a reason. And if we can use it, then we should use it. And if we can't use it and we don't have A use for it and it goes away, then we should give it to somebody that can use it. 02:27:42 Richard Harris Yeah, you don't really have the language on gender that allow you to vote on it, but I think there can be a consensus in the discussion. 02:27:51 Richard Harris An objection is consistent with past practice. 02:27:57 Richard Harris And the question comes up, does chair have authority to make that determination? 02:28:04 Richard Harris When time is of the essence. 02:28:06 Matt Allison And it's only going to bite you in the ****. If anybody doesn't like it and. 02:28:09 Matt Allison Complains about it. Well, looking. Yeah. I mean, they'll get in trouble and they'll be in trouble. 02:28:15 Richard Harris Will also present planning, while Members will be on record in the meeting indicating. 02:28:16 Anne Aubrey Who's in charge of making these enchantments? 02:28:21 Richard Harris Then concurrence with the approach, yeah. 02:28:24 Matthew Brenner So do people concur with the approach of continuing to give them hours? We've given them along for the same page, but yeah, that otherwise isn't going to be used. 02:28:30 Richard Harris That you're not using. 02:28:35 Matt Allison With the caveat that I've asked every time do we have use for these? 02:28:41 Matt Allison And I don't think we do. 02:28:42 Matthew Brenner Yeah. Well, I think that was clarify. I I'm aware of no use for them, Mr. Harris says not aware of the use for them. 02:28:49 Matt Allison The only thing I could think of was the master planning, and they themselves could fund those hours through the the the money they've gotten from us. 02:28:57 Matt Allison So as far as I can see, there's no use for them. 02:29:01 Matt Allison And I will jump off that bridge. 02:29:02 Amanda Reid With you all right. 02:29:07 Anne Aubrey Thank you. 02:29:08 Amanda Reid OK, great. 02:29:09 Matt Allison Do we want to officiate it or just have that conversation? 02:29:13 Matthew Brenner I think we've had the conversation. We seem to be an incurrence in concurrence. I am not hearing any disagreement with that o r. 02:29:23 Richard Harris The chairman will communicate. The past practice has been. 02:29:28 Matt Allison I liked it. 02:29:31 Richard Harris And then a need to you at the January meeting put motion on the agenda to ratify. 02:29:40 Matthew Brenner And it could. We have that phrase that is is build their play or no it's on other groups. So you can grab it from another agenda. But could we have that added to the top of our? 02:29:51 Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 46=== Agendas for the. 02:29:53 Matthew Brenner It's it's bill that played out there probably was on ours and got limit, got a race or action at. 02:29:58 Matthew Brenner Some point B. 02:30:01 Matthew Brenner Tom, I know it's on capital planning agendas. I believe you can see is the business. You know the agenda reflects all business that is reasonably anticipated if something else comes up, we'll deal with it, but formally said. 02:30:18 Matt Allison Copy from the select board, yeah. 02:30:21 Richard Harris And you use it very sparingly, but for something like this that there's no consequence. 02:30:26 Matthew Brenner To anybody else. 02:30:28 Richard Harris You wouldn't use it to approve a special permit and. 02:30:31 Matt Allison Even a video. 02:30:35 Anne Aubrey You know the one day. 02:30:40 Amanda Reid Thank you. 02:30:41 Matthew Brenner Is Aubrey, Massachusetts, fine land action plan? I'm not going to get too deep into this because we've. 02:30:49 Matthew Brenner Been here a while. 02:30:50 Matthew Brenner Already and because there. 02:30:51 Matthew Brenner Wasn't I'm not super well versed but last not. Yeah, last Monday the state released the Massachusetts farmland. 02:31:01 Matthew Brenner Action plan last draw. 02:31:05 Matthew Brenner And it. 02:31:08 Matthew Brenner I mean, they're pretty excited about it and it's basically a whole 200 page document saying 15% of our farmland is protected. That isn't enough because it's rapidly shrinking. And so it's an action plan for here's things the state should be looking at and doing. 02:31:28 Matthew Brenner I can. It's available on the state website if you search for Massachusetts five round action plan, but I'm happy to send the PDF along as well. 02:31:39 Matthew Brenner It's just out there to the board members, but most of all, put it on our radar. The state is interested in putting more farmland under protection, while the I will be sending this around to the Master Plan Committee as well. The other thing kind of echoing this. 02:32:00 Matthew Brenner Is. I've been I did some talking with the chair of the Hatfield. 02:32:08 Matthew Brenner Planning board now Hatfield is not similar to us in many ways. They're smaller, while remembering is also traditionally agricultural. The reality, as agriculture is not a huge component of our economic base, whereas in Hatfield that. 02:32:27 Matthew Brenner Is a very large component of. 02:32:28 Matthew Brenner Their economic base, but there's loading up to be the first time in the state to add an agriculture section. 02:32:39 Matthew Brenner To their master plan. 02:32:42 Matthew Brenner And so I've gotten some info from them on that as well. I'll be putting forward to the master Plan Steering committee saying, hey, this is happening out there specifically in the context of as the info, we don't have the full data yet. But to me it looks like it's shaking up at the time, does still care about like the culture and that. 02:33:01 Matthew Brenner Agricultural heritage in the town. 02:33:04 Matthew Brenner So I wanted to call this to our attention. I'll send it along. I will send it along to the master Plan Steering Committee as well as the info I have about what Hatfield is doing. 02:33:16 Matthew Brenner This is just to put it on our mostly really just to put it on our radar. I think we need a lot of discussion per se. 02:33:24 Matthew Brenner Yeah, state wants to move from. ===PAGE 47=== 02:33:27 Matthew Brenner 15%. 02:33:29 Matthew Brenner They want to, I think, effectively double the percentage that's in that's being protected. 02:33:37 Matthew Brenner By 20 -30 or something like it's aggressive, maybe even bigger goals for 2040. That's my quick I've done a. 02:33:49 Matthew Brenner Very light reading of the 200 page document. 02:33:54 Matthew Brenner But it's out there and the state. 02:33:56 Matthew Brenner Wants aground protected. 02:33:59 Matthew Brenner For all the reasons we heard and discussed before. 02:34:03 Matthew Brenner All right. 02:34:04 Matt Allison Super. Thank you. 02:34:06 Matthew Brenner Do you have moves to approve or no? OK, I don't think so. I don't see them in the. That's fine. We will. So we have no minute s to approve committee reports, master Plan steering committee. 02:34:19 Timothy Willsmer Meeting this Thursday, 6:00. 02:34:26 Timothy Willsmer Here I think. 02:34:26 Matthew Brenner OK. Yeah, it's here usually here. I don't know. 02:34:32 Matthew Brenner All right. 02:34:36 Matthew Brenner Mr. was like from last night when we get there open space, add hops, steer yeah, open space ad hoc committee. 02:34:42 Matt Allison No, Sir. So we haven't been able to get a meeting together and we're going to kibosh trying to get one this year. So we're going to try again for the January. 02:34:56 Timothy Willsmer Yes, 6:00. Thursday here. 02:34:58 Matthew Brenner Perfect. Thank you, Sir. 02:35:01 Matthew Brenner Weinberg Municipal Building design committee. 02:35:04 Matt Allison We have not met and I'm not sure when we plan on meeting again. We typically have been every other Monday back and forth between planni ng so. 02:35:16 Matt Allison Again, we haven't met no report. 02:35:19 Amanda Reid OK. 02:35:22 Matt Allison Agricultural Commission and I will have a report the very first of the year, because our meeting is I need to submit the agenda for tomorrow, for Thursday, this coming Thursday. 02:35:33 Matthew Brenner Oh, that's the other reason I bring up the final action plan because. 02:35:41 Amanda Reid Yeah. Yep. 02:35:41 Matt Allison You send me the info and I'll put on the agenda for Thursday. 02:35:47 Matthew Brenner Capital Planning Committee, we've heard all the presentations and now we're sitting down and looking at linking. If we have feedback on things you've seen from the committee, if you have, please send it along to me. 02:36:03 Matthew Brenner But it's there are some items that seem very likely to get funded from initial. They seem to be likely to be high on the priority list. There are some items that estimate will almost certainly be very low on the priority list, just through right discussion s with people. 02:36:24 Matthew Brenner And again, that committee is going to have its recommendations before Christmas. 02:36:31 Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 48=== Is the goal and down after the New Year, rather than that meeting, we'll be continuing to meet to actually capital plan, not capital. Prioritize. Still looking forward to that. 02:36:43 Matthew Brenner Economic Development committee. 02:36:46 Matthew Brenner We do need. There is a hiccup about moving room and getting keys and everything that's that got wiped out. 02:36:55 Matthew Brenner I'm just looking at my notes from it. 02:37:01 Matthew Brenner I am. 02:37:06 Matthew Brenner Yeah, it was kind of a not a very big meeting. There was a recap about the town government meeting group because this is the first time they've met since then because scheduling issues. And that's when the venues. 02:37:23 Matthew Brenner Are we booked? Lopez's ranch is booked for next year because isn't interested in that being an ongoing thing from members of town governme nt and from business members and business owners and potential business owners. 02:37:37 Matthew Brenner I encourage everyone who's potentially interested to come join next year because more friendly faces makes coming before us when we need something less scary. 02:37:50 Matthew Brenner And I did pass it on to them saying great, we've got solar therapy through. Well, you get, I mean, get the word out there the the bylaws there, it's passed. But what we don't have is. 02:38:01 Matthew Brenner A row of saying this bylaw is passed. 02:38:03 Matthew Brenner You can do. 02:38:03 Matthew Brenner It now right and. 02:38:08 Matthew Brenner Yeah. Nothing super important. I mean really super important that sounds wrong, but otherwise uneventful. 02:38:19 Matthew Brenner Going back in my notes. 02:38:21 Speaker 7 Stormwater task force. 02:38:28 Timothy Willsmer December 28th expect to be the. 02:38:31 Matthew Brenner Massachusetts regional planning. 02:38:33 Speaker 6 Commission. So we met on the 7th. Not too much in regards to Lunenburg, it was mostly about we. 02:38:43 Speaker 6 Had a lot. 02:38:43 Speaker 6 Of market updates, they're providing a shuttle to the train in Harvard. 02:38:51 Speaker 6 And they said that it's being used quite frequently. They've seen a huge uptick in riders for that. They also got a grant through shared streets and spaces. And they added 12 bus shelters. 02:39:07 Speaker 6 None in Lunenburg, but in, Athol, Gardner, Fitchburg, and Leominster, they did mention that their fixed route fares have decreased in price. They were $1.25, and now they are $1.00. I'm sure you can find all the information for that on their website. They also said that. 02:39:27 Speaker 6 Student fares are free and there are no cost transfers between regional route. 02:39:33 Speaker 6 And another note that I have from the meeting was we discussed just a little bit about an ACP program for discounted Internet. I'm not it, it goes with the the digital equity planning that MRPC is doing if you search. 02:39:52 Speaker 6 There is a chance, depending on your income level or your age, that you could qualify for discounted Internet in your home. S o all that information can be found on MRC's website. 02:40:05 Matthew Brenner Thank you, Montachusett Joint Transportation committee. 02:40:09 Speaker 6 We have not met. We're meeting on Wednesday. 02:40:11 Matthew Brenner OK, excellent. Thank you. Meeting schedule meetings, 6:00 here in the in town hall unless otherwise indicated. 02:40:25 Matthew Brenner Upcoming meetings include January 8th and then the 22nd. ===PAGE 49=== 02:40:33 Matthew Brenner Ongoing items master plan nothing. 02:40:38 Timothy Willsmer Nothing new at this. 02:40:39 Matthew Brenner Point. Yeah. So. So nothing. I'm new on my end either coordinating with over, under at all other than pass someone for along. Like I said before. 02:40:54 Matthew Brenner I mentioned that Mister Harris was working on the line by line for the water Supply Protection district zoning for MBTA Communities Action Plan. I spoke with Karen Chapman and the others at the Citizen Planner Training Conference. 02:41:14 Matthew Brenner And for West in Western Mass at GCC the other weekend. 02:41:18 Matthew Brenner And and I came as the gentleman's name. But I emailed her. She had Jen e -mail me. The short answer is MRPC is shortly going to have the recommendations and then we will be. 02:41:31 Matthew Brenner Able to look at next steps. 02:41:35 Matthew Brenner But they've been doing very well work for us to make it so we can do. 02:41:40 Matthew Brenner Whatever we have to do. 02:41:46 Matthew Brenner Bloomberg Municipal Buildings, we will talk about the committee, so I don't know of anything else there. Parkview Commons LLC. Yeah. So the summary I would give is that. 02:42:03 Matthew Brenner Basically, our legal argument so hack got back. It came back with the judgment, and hack is notorious for all. We're siding w ith developers because that's. 02:42:19 Matthew Brenner Let's start with our view is kind of the point of the process. 02:42:23 Matthew Brenner But basically came back and in a broad summary would be. 02:42:28 Matthew Brenner No, they can't actually tell the water district what to do. The water district is not is zoning thing. It wasn't made to rest rict. It's there to give. 02:42:38 Matthew Brenner Water and they can't make it get bigger and do things. 02:42:45 Matthew Brenner And so effect and you can correct me if that's incorrect leading. 02:42:50 Richard Harris And that's correct. I'm not. I don't. 02:42:53 Richard Harris Say it's dead yet. 02:42:55 Matt Allison Oh, so I can add to that. 02:42:57 Matt Allison They can't tell the. 02:42:58 Matt Allison The water district. They can't tell the sewer Commission and they can't tell the intermunicipal agreement that we have to hav e with the neighboring towns. 02:43:05 Matt Allison There's three things I believe. 02:43:07 Matthew Brenner And So what happens now is. 02:43:12 Matthew Brenner The applicant may choose to contest this. That is absolutely the right, but now it goes. But half now has issued a jug. 02:43:22 Matthew Brenner Yeah. So effectively, no, I have. So there is but. 02:43:28 Matt Allison I have a question on that. It was an appeal initially on a decision from the CBA. Can they an appeal? The decision of an appe al? 02:43:36 Matthew Brenner Yeah, really. Does it stop? Yeah. 02:43:38 Richard Harris It goes into. 02:43:39 Matthew Brenner Court OK? Yeah. 02:43:41 Matthew Brenner Appealing region. Yeah, appealing the decision of the of. 02:43:45 Matthew Brenner ===PAGE 50=== The DA, isn't it? 02:43:47 Matthew Brenner Real appeal because because the whole process is, to my understanding, just yeah. 02:43:54 Richard Harris Thought process of design to end up within the build to OK what you're doing is you're being built, but anybody who's not satisfy the tax decision can then take into court. 02:44:12 Matthew Brenner And has been. 02:44:12 Richard Harris It's a wish to spend mine. 02:44:13 Matthew Brenner Yes. And as they explained to me, the difference is that. 02:44:19 Matthew Brenner There is no. That means is no longer a case of arguing my my stance is correct. They first have to prove that hack was incorrect in his judgment, which is a different witness. This difference in saying I have a better argument. First, you have to say they were wrong. 02:44:39 Matthew Brenner Here's why, and I can prove it. So we'll see what happens next. I don't. Personally, I do not think this is the last. 02:44:49 Matthew Brenner We've heard. 02:44:50 Matthew Brenner Of it, but hopefully. 02:44:55 Matthew Brenner Well, we'll see what happens from. 02:44:57 Richard Harris Here developers have put money into these projects tend to be willing to go along the way than. 02:45:04 Richard Harris Most of us. 02:45:06 Richard Harris For some reason. 02:45:09 Matthew Brenner All right, that is everything. Do we have any public comment? There is no public in the room unless they're having hearing th em seeing them, assuming no ones behind the screen at the back of the room board comment concerns. 02:45:28 Matthew Brenner Rock'n'roll, then in that case I will look for a motion to adjourn. 02:45:37 Amanda Reid Second, all in favor. 02:45:39 Amanda Reid Aye aye, aye. 02:45:41 Matt Allison All right.